How do I tell the difference between ROCD and relationship doubts?

That sounds so tough, Brandi! Thank you for your openness in sharing! I'm also a huge reassurance seeker as well and can very much relate. The best thing I ever did for myself was start ERP therapy with NOCD. It helped save my relationship and taught me that I could live with my own decisions, without running to others. Are you currently seeking ERP treatment?

@ Thank you for sharing also! I feel a lot less alone. I am not at the moment. I’m currently in talk therapy and brought up to her quite recently that I’m incredibly concerned I have OCD (I have a psychiatry and psychology apt scheduled to figure that out for sure this month) and she thinks so too but she continued to undermine me and say OCD is mostly physical compulsions and not mental, she’s been really rubbing me the wrong way in regards to OCD and she doesn’t know much about it so it seems and isn’t specialized in it. So, I’m currently on the search for someone that will take my insurance and knows everything they can about OCD.

@brandifleury Make sure it is ERP therapy. Talk therapy is ineffective for OCD and can actually make it worse. ERP is the gold standard for OCD treatment. If you’re having trouble finding a therapist, NOCD is all ERP therapy and 100% by Zoom. You’ll get your therapy from your home. Your therapist is, as you probably know, VERY wrong about OCD being about mostly physical compulsions. It’s both physical and mental.

@Brendan =] I called someone on this app and the appointments are wayyy to expensive for me. I’m out of work right now and they don’t take my insurance 😢 I do know that now but in the moment I was broken and I felt like I was going insane and like it was all in my head and not real, that was and still is a struggle. I take things people say to me, especially my therapist very seriously and it trumps my own beliefs and facts. It’s hard.

@brandifleury - I can definitely understand that being a struggle. We go to our therapists for help and we want to trust their judgement. It's so hard when they don't always point us in the right direction for what we really need! I know you mentioned that NOCD therapy isn't an option right now due to finances, which I understand. I would highly encourage heading to the IOCDF.org website. Here you will find a search feature that allows you to locate ERP specialists in your area. I'm very hopeful there is someone in network with your insurance so that you can get started ASAP!

@ I just used the link and looked and couldn’t find any within my state that take my insurance 😢

@brandifleury - I'm so sorry to hear this! You may also benefit from calling your insurance company and asking for them to provide you a list of in-network ERP specialists!

@Dj-is-trying Nice post. A few things to keep in mind here: OCD and ROCD do not want you happy under any circumstances. Their goal is to bully you and make you feel as terrible as they possibly can. They have absolutely no empathy, kindness, or limit. That’s the whole thing with OCD- your brain is literally at war with yourself; your OCD is fired up and determined to win and take away all of your happiness. It’s pure evil and LOVES when you’re miserable. I like that you choose to sit with uncertainty everyday, however you have some compulsions (checking for certainty) in that section: “I love my boyfriend, even if ROCD makes me think I don’t- I chose him- He is important to me”. All of that is self-reassurance which is a very sneaky compulsion. The more you fight against what your OCD/ ROCD is telling you, the more food you give it to survive, grow, and thrive. Heck, I’ve even started calling my struggles “potential ROCD” because I try not to give it anything. You catch my drift. =] Is your therapy ERP therapy?

@Brendan =] Yeah it’s erp therapy. I’ve been seeing a NOCD therapist since august and doing erp on my own. What you said makes perfect sense, I still feel like I have a long way to go because all of my compulsions are mental. It makes it so difficult. Ocd is thriving on me not knowing if I’m doing things right, second guessing everything.

I've known I've had OCD for years, but like you, the OCD really got out of hand suddenly in 2022, which is why I'm here. I had no idea I was doing as many mental compulsions as I was until I started ERP therapy with NOCD (I.e. the self-assurance, avoidance, distraction, rumination). Knowing this was a game changer for me!

You are an inspiration to me, Dj-is-trying! I love your mindset, perseverance, and determination. You are an OCD warrior and you are stronger than the OCD. It might throw some great punches and make some days much harder than others, but you are standing your ground and showing it who is boss. Keep up your hard work!

@ That honestly makes me want to tear up hearing that. I love this, thank you 💕 it’s such great encouragement 🥹🥹💕 last night and today has been difficult but I just got erp erp erp and ride the wave

@Dj-is-trying - You've got this - ride that wave!

Yes - thank you for your positivity and this reminder!

Wow! Congratulations on starting ERP, peyt7! I'm so excited for you to see how ERP really can change your life and help you to stop mental compulsions and googling. You are in such great hands!

Yay! And good luck! ERP therapy was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, but my gosh has it worked for me! Not acting on the compulsions is easier said than done, but the anxiety has lessened for me the more I practice ERP. I'm learning how to identify an OCD flare-up, then tolerate the anxiety & uncertainty my OCD triggers without acting on the compulsion. I have dared to hope that there's help for me just yet!

@Aivlissa Thank you both. I describe it as closing my eyes, looking away and running into the fire 😅 scared but doing it anyways!!

@peyt7 - I think that's the perfect mantra for ERP - "Scared but doing it anyways!"

Mindilini, thank you so much for sharing!! Congratulations on pushing through your exposures and I love that you are feeling better and more encouraged now that they are completed. ROCD can feel so daunting and isolating at times. I mean, our whole worries surround around relationships! Having the ability to really talk with others who get it and don't judge is such a blessing! Thank you for being here and for interacting with us.

Hi there! It is this article linked above: https://www.treatmyocd.com/blog/relationship-doubts-sign-of-relationship-ocd-symptom.

Welcome Deb! ROCD stands for Relationship OCD. Here is a great article that explains ROCD in more depth: https://www.treatmyocd.com/blog/relationship-ocd

Thank you so much for sharing! Sometimes the most encouraging thing is remembering that we aren't on this journey alone and others really understand what we are going through!

@Ori This sounds like something I deal with. Why can’t I clarify if I should or should not be in the relationship I am currently in?!? Or if I want to be or don’t want to be in it?! What is my truth?!

@Ori Keep in mind that labeling thoughts as ROCD or OCD can be a compulsion and feed and reinforcement the disorder. I discovered that in my ERP therapy and have been working on stopping. Truly accepting uncertainty is the way to go. =]

@weareenough! The searching for certainty is very understandable. It feels like most people know, why can’t we, right?!? The reality is that looking for that certainty is a compulsion and actually feeds and reinforces the ROCD. The more you search for those answers, the more your disorder progresses. It gets stronger when you ruminate and dwell and it gets stronger when you engage with the thoughts and questions. It’s taken me a long time to get to the point where I’m ready to entertain uncertainty, but the more I do it, the better I feel. Your OCD will tell you that a little more dwelling will finally get you to a place where you feel that you finally know the answers, but this isn’t true. It really isn’t. Your OCD has already gotten you to a point where you’re desperate to know. But searching for the answers only sinks you deeper.

That's incredibly encouraging, Ori! Congratulations on all the hard work that you obviously have put in to get to this point and now, you get to reap the benefits! ERP really is such an eye-opening experience. I'm so glad that you are now able to discern and leave toxic relationships without the added pressure and uncertainty of OCD!

@weareenough! - These are all questions that have plagued me too, weareenough!! It is so difficult when OCD constantly blares a new question, like a game of whack a mole we just can't keep up with! ERP was the only way that I was truly able to learn how to sit with the uncertainty.

I'm glad to hear that you are no longer experiencing as many intrusive thoughts regarding your girlfriend cheating! And thank you for your openness in sharing. We are all on this journey together!

My heart is breaking for you! I can very much relate to how OCD becomes this all-consuming doubt and questions. I imagine these past few months have been utterly exhausting. So happy to hear that you will be meeting with an NOCD clinician tomorrow and starting on your recovery journey. We are all rooting for you!

@smyers02 This sounds terrible. Just be aware that breaking up can be a compulsion. If you’re doing it to feel better, you’re feeding your OCD.

@Brendan =] I never thought of it like that. 🫢 I get urges all the time. Thanks for this new insight!!!

@peyt7 OCD is always hungry. It tells you to do things so it can be fed and it can grow bigger. Break up, analyze, judge, compare, act on its urges, check, research, recheck, Google, ruminate, take quizzes, pray, tap, measure, ask for opinions, play out imaginary situations, dwell on the future or past, provide yourself reassurance, question, doubt, even question if it’s OCD or real. OCD and ROCD can be fed by any of these and it sends you deeper down the rabbit hole. Paying attention to it is what it wants. This is why truly embracing uncertainty is the way to go.

@Brendan =] Thank you so much. I’m new to OCD (but have struggled all my life) I just finally know what it is. This is helpful :) I’ve NEVER been able to just BE. Always thinking, analyzing, to a negative degree!

@peyt7 not to invade in the conversation but SAME! when I actually just sit and think about it, I’ve NEVER been able to be silent in my brain and just live. I feel you 😞

@brandifleury You’re not invading. You’re good! Same. My BF wanted to go out for dinner and we’re out now at Blaze Pizza. I was already anxious and it’s been probably a 7 as the SUDS rating (Subjective Units of Distress Scale) out of 10. I’m trying to not feel terrible and to enjoy myself but it’s a chore. I’m trying not to judge his appearance or compare or wonder if the staff is cuter, would I be happier with one of them, are they even better or good? I also have Body Dysmorphic Disorder and now it seems BDD by proxy. >_> It’s hell. But we have to get through it, use our skills and do are best to make steps toward progress.

@Brendan =] I wish my brain would shut up and I could have a nice time. But I’m willing to work and fight. I’m willing to give it my all to beat this.

@brandifleury It can be so hard. I’m trying to practice letting it be and not engaging 💕 wishing you luck ❤️

@Brendan =] thank you for sharing 🥹 it’s very helpful to know I’m not alone. I struggle with those exact thought! It’s such a hard fucking battle. I feel for you and believe in you!!!

@peyt7 thank you! 🥹 same to you!

@brandifleury You may want to look up BDD by proxy. It’s a possibility for you but of course, I can’t be totally sure. Maybe ROCD can cause appearance concerns. BDD is an OCD related disorder. It’s hard to believe that getting into another relationship (where appearance wasn’t a concern) that these concerns would come to that relationship, too. I know from my BDD concerns, they say that the issue is really on the inside and it just presents on the outside but that’s so so so hard to believe. Apparently tons of people get plastic surgery but then don’t feel better or that they keep needing more and more and more. I still think we both need it (me and my BF). But given how I keep seeing different things with him maybe it is kind of on the inside and an issue with me and my interpretation. When I used mirrors, I kept seeing different things with me, too. I am such a hypocrite. I’m preaching not doing compulsions and here I am Google image searching “heavy jowls” first to see if my definition of “jowls” is correct, then that leads to searching a term I see, “heavyset face”, then “fat face”, then looking at before and after photos of weight-loss and surgeries. Gahhhh. 😭 I’m going to stop myself before I go deeper and not continue these compulsions. #STARVEOCD!

@Brendan =] I totally see what you’re saying! I’ll definitely try looking into that. The hardest thing for me is this is my first real legitimate relationship but I was sort of with someone before him and I never had doubts about his looks, I had obsessive thoughts about other things definitely but not about his looks, I was obsessed with everything about him and thought he was perfect but he most definitely was not 😅 and now I’m with an amazing guy (who doesn’t look even remotely like him) but he is handsome! I think… I just doubt everything I dunno. That makes it the hardest because I’m like??? Is that a sign then because I didn’t struggle with that before…ugh it makes me wanna throw up and my chest tighten up typing this. I don’t want to worsen anything by continuing to talk too much or trigger you, if I am I’m so super sorry!

@brandifleury You didn’t trigger me. You’re totally fine. It’s sort of like I wrote this in a way. I was with someone for a short while before but the connection never really happened and communication just faded. There was no real breakup. Eventually contact just died. I was doubting that I was feeling some stuff but not really looks. With my current partner, there were look doubts from the first time I saw him approaching me (but I sort of don’t remember that night too well almost 4 years ago. I know we wound up cuddling and kissing in bed. O_o Maybe I got a better look and changed my original opinion?) There are times where I think my partner looks fine and I wonder about why I was previously so concerned. Then the worries always come back. It’s exhausting. In both our cases, these disorders may progress and evolve. Maybe the appearance things and ROCD didn’t have as much of a voice back then and they weren’t as appearance-focused. I also totally know what you’re saying about the physical sensations. I always have the stomach knot, tight shoulders, heart rate increase, and anxiety when it’s almost time for him to be home from work.

@Brendan =] Yes I totally get that! I genuinely can’t recall for the first 2 years of our relationship me ever being like this, like I doubt I could hide it especially from my insane overthinking brain ya know? And now all of a sudden it’s like someone awakened in me. I had a personal procedure that was sort of traumatizing back in July and then my mom passed and everything had changed, my outlook on everything. I think it’s all taken a toll and made my mental health just plummet. I think my OCD has evolved into something I never imagined it could, it’s terrible. Oh my god, the physical sensations have been the absolute worst. I wake up with my heart racing and go to bed with it racing. I was looking at old pics of my bf and they were when we first started dating and he looks so different and my heart just started racing until I could find a picture where he looked different with facial hair and such and it made me feel like I could throw up, like how disgusting of me and my body to react that way…like if I didn’t care then, and even if I did have those thoughts like I still loved him then and do now like what does it even matter? Ugh it makes me feel like such a piece of garbage.

@brandifleury Brandi- I wish I had the words to adequately express how terribly sorry I am to hear of your mothers passing. That and the traumatic procedure must have been absolutely terrible. I can’t even picture how tough and hard that would be. Those things happening are enough to throw anyone off balance and cause a spiral or intense suffering. It’s a huge amount to process and a lot of grief to sift through and put away. How are you doing now with all of that? Also, did you have OCD before? A lot of the time OCD is developed due to extreme situations and trauma. My past talk therapist thought my OCD was developed in response to the extreme childhood physical and mental abuse I lived through. It makes a lot of sense to me. My best advice to you now is to be more of a friend to yourself and to work the best you can to be more gentle in how you treat, care for, and think about you. I understand the thought process of what you’re describing, definitely, but your last paragraph does sound like you’re being very hard on yourself and self-judgmental. Labeling yourself, judging your thoughts (which are not you), and beating yourself up can feel tempting and “deserved”, but they really aren’t helpful or productive, especially when you’re really hurting. When I was in therapy for my body dysmorphia, I got the advice of being more of a friend to myself and being more gentle with myself many times, but one session I just finally got it and heard it. Since then, I’ve been doing a much better job at it and I think it’s really important. OCD is ego-dystonic, which means that your thoughts and values don’t align. This is yet another reason for you to not blame yourself for this thinking. So when you have these “disgusting” thoughts courtesy of OCD, try to separate thoughts from interpretation and result. You are not your thoughts and they have no inherent meaning. Everyone has unwanted and crazy thoughts, they just don’t act on them. People with OCD frequently just misinterpret their OCD thoughts as significant. I may have a silly thought of painting my car fluorescent pink and just think it’s a silly thought that I would never do. That wouldn’t cause me much distress. When I’m on the train platform and think about pushing the stranger in front of me onto the tracks as the train approaches, that one has a much better chance of sticking and being overanalyzed, even if it is just as silly and equally unlikely. When I think my boyfriend and I aren’t right, and that the chemistry and attraction is off, that one hits really hard and is extremely difficult to dismiss. That’s why turning to skills, acknowledging the thought, not engaging with it, and just sitting with the discomfort and uncertainty is the heart of ERP. Over time, we learn we can handle being uncomfortable and uncertain. OCD just latches onto what we value and like and tells lies and more lies about it. This doubt disorder is horrible. >_> I hope this all makes sense and helps. We went out for dinner again tonight because we have few groceries and it was totally different and better than last night. I realized that if I feel distress lurking beneath the surface, it’s going to be more present and bothersome. If I am having a hard day, my interpretations will be worse and I’ll be much more inclined to judge, label, and stress myself out. I feel a lot better tonight, but I know the thoughts and doubts will return. It’s kind of scary just waiting for them to.

@Brendan =] Truly I appreciate that so much, thank you so much. I haven’t been doing good really at all since she’s passed, it’s been 4 months and I don’t feel I’m getting any better. I quit my job, all I do is stay at home and sleep and cry..it’s so hard. I know I’ve had symptoms since I was 5/6 for sure. It’s something that has seemed to turn off and then awaken when I least expect it kind of. When I was super young I remember my aunt got me a lollipop from a candy store and she had a red one she got as well and when I saw it I cried because it made me think of blood and murder and then it made me think of my family, wild stuff. I just don’t know how to do that. It seems to far away for me, like it’s something I can’t achieve and I don’t deserve..it just feels so foreign and like I’m lying to myself when it’s now what I should be telling myself. Exactly! It’s like certain thoughts I can’t dismiss but others that bear no weight to me I can. When it comes to my relationship shit hits me sooooo hard. It all makes a lot of sense! Thank you so much for taking the time to continue to reply and help me out, I truly appreciate it! The hardest part is actually believing this is what’s going on, and not letting it hurt me because that’s all I’m doing right now. I’m so glad to hear you had a better day! Just even one day with a slight break from it all is so helpful. I had a little date with my partner today too and we had so much fun and laughed the whole time, I did have a lot of times where when I looked at him my might went nuts and was like “you don’t like his nose” “is he even attractive to you” “are you guys just friends” and I wanted to throw up but I tried so hard to not ignore it but that’s what my brain goes to do first, it’s hard.

@brandifleury Hey, I’m sorry for my delayed response- this week has been wacky. I’ve adopted an up all night & asleep all day sleeping schedule over the past few days and have been dealing with a little depression, too. It’s kind of a hard thing to fix but I’m working on it. I think it’s normal and healthy for you to not be in a good place so soon after losing someone so important. In fact, if life were great for you right now, I’d be a little concerned. Sadly, it takes a lot of time and energy to grieve and heal and move on, but it’s essential that you allow yourself to take the time you need, and that you don’t judge yourself on how you’re doing, what you’re thinking, and what you’re feeling. “Should” statement are never good (e.g. “I should be more past this by now”,) and those types of comparisons are a great way to make anyone feel awful. I’m familiar with a helpful grief analogy of the ball in the box with the button. Have you heard of it? I looked it up online to with the intention of checking that I word it correctly here, but the entire page I found it on is wonderful! I think reading through the whole page, (including the stuff after the analogy) would be helpful for you. I especially liked the pages’ suggestion of journaling. https://psychcentral.com/blog/coping-with-grief-ball-and-box-analogy I’d be interested to hear your thoughts. =] Your paragraph beginning “I just don’t know how to do that. It seems too far away from me, like it’s something I can’t achieve and don’t deserve” I’m guessing is in response to my advice to be more of a friend to yourself and to treat yourself more gently. If I’m correct, I completely understand. I have a lot of emotional healing left to do myself, and for the longest time believing I had any worth was almost laughably ridiculous. It really comes down to deeply-rooted core beliefs. There is an exercises for determining what your negative core beliefs are, but I’m going to hold off on explaining this “downwards arrow” exercise because I think it’s better done with a therapist who can guide you through it. Two exercises you can do, however, are: 1. List out (literally on paper) a positive statement toward yourself and then list some reasons why you feel you don’t believe it or believe it shouldn’t apply to you. Then do another statement and some reasons you don’t believe that. This should be a challenging but revealing process. The other exercise you could do is the self-esteem pie. List out (literally on paper) all the good things that add value to your life and make you who you are. You’re looking for all the positive traits that you possess; things that can contribute to your self-esteem. Then make a pie graph with these values and illustrate it. These traits, for example, could be things like: *Smart *Caring *Compassionate *Strong at writing *Helpful/ giving *Loving *Kind to animals *Lover of cooking *Amazing at painting/ sketching *Selfless *Hilarious and witty *Strong morals *Good at playing piano You get the idea. Try to focus on these aspects of your life and enhance their presence in your day-to-day life. This should be helpful and will also take your mind of things for a while both while you make the list and also as you work on the implementation of your traits. =] As for believing that OCD is what’s going on and not letting it hurt you: telling yourself that “this is OCD/ ROCD” is actually not recommended. Truly embracing uncertainty is. Labeling thoughts as OCD is actually a compulsion (as it’s meant to bring relief from the tough thoughts) and should be avoided. Acknowledging that they may be true, may not be true, and sitting with the feelings that come with that, is the best way forward. I’m very happy to respond and continue talking to you as I’m genuinely enjoying it. It’s really nice to converse with someone who actually has some similar struggles and maybe try to be of some help, as well as to be able to share some of my struggles. My only worry is that all the people who originally liked or even commented on Rebecca’s post, as well as Rebecca herself, are now continuing to get notifications of our ongoing chat. xDD (Oops! And sorry!) Maybe they’re silently following along and enjoying reading it, maybe they’re getting ticked. #Uncertainty. ;) Hope you’re doing well. I had a bit of a tougher night tonight with some dwelling and comparing at the supermarket. I notice when we’re out, I tend to spend A LOT of time looking around at other people, and checking and comparing, even if I’m not consciously doing it. My goal is to work on this in the near future, as well as to continue to work on moving towards my values. =]

@Brendan =] Hi! No need to be sorry at all, I’m in the same boat to be honest, my sleeping schedule is messed up just like that and I’m dealing with some hard depression. I completely understand! I will definitely look into it as soon as I’m done with this message, thank you!! Labeling it as OCD/ROCD is the quickest and easiest way I do compulsions and sometimes without noticing it, that one is incredibly hard but I will try even harder! 100% same here! I appreciate it so much! It helps me feel not so alone and I’m glad it does the same for you. Haha no worries, I’ll shut up after this one lol 😂 I’m doing okay, I’m fighting every day to be okay & it’s been a tiny bit better. You got this though! One step at a time! 😊

@Rous I think I kind of have the same thing going on. I feel like my relationship can’t be right at times, but every attractive person I see, I feel like a relationship with them wouldn’t be better because something about even talking to them (if I were single) would feel wrong. Something wouldn’t be right in another relationship either. It’s made me analyze myself and I’m torn because I don’t know if the wrong feelings and doubts are just my ROCD or I am not ready. And then I acknowledge that knowing ROCD could be influencing thoughts is a compulsion and wonder if I’m trying to feel better from that. I also feel better with my partner than alone, a lot. I wish I had advice for your post but I would need it, too. Hopefully, someone can jump in. But I hope you know you’re not alone.

@Brendan =] I think my main thing making it feel like it’s ocd is this has happened to my past two relationship to differing degrees. One where I was worried I was getting into the dating game too soon, but then that morphed into thoughts that everything needs to feel right. All evidence is to the contrary when we’re together. We talk and laugh for hours. Deep down I cannot wait for dates. I beam when I talk about her. Yet when im alone the thoughts and feelings swirl. I hope you find the relief you desire as well. Know you’re not alone.

Rous, I can very much empathize with what you are describing! I remember after each date with my now husband, no matter how great the date was, I would come home and immediately ruminate and doubt. "Did this really feel right?" "Does he still feel this way now that an hour has past." You name it, I doubted it! ERP was tremendously helpful at allowing me to learn and weed out what was actually legitimate concerns and what was just the OCD!

@Rous Thank you for your kind words. This is yet another post on here that I relate to to the point where I feel like I could have written it. Your mind going to darker places when you’re alone is something I relate to greatly. That’s where activity scheduling comes to play, which is essentially scheduling things to occupy your free time when you have a lot of it, or because free time is emerging due to a reduction in compulsions. Try your best to keep your time occupied. =] It would be great to do some exposures and response prevention regarding your relationship and the fears and thoughts you’re having when you’re alone. Have you been through ERP therapy?