Feeling very trapped and unheard and alone...

Feels like it. Maybe not LITERALLY. I'd say at least once every few weeks, but it's probably more frequent than that

Well, I do ruminate on it. Only other option there is is to just stop trying to talk to people about my struggles, therapist included. Maybe that's what's best, I'm certainly thinking about it. It hurts too bad, listening to people act like they know what I'm talking about while I don't even feel heard. I know they don't even understand what I'm trying to say, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to disprove me so much. Again, it's hard to explain. But they say that confiding in others can help one get through a hard time -- I guess that probably doesn't always work tho

Honestly you probably already have. I talk about it a lot, trying to find the answer. I'm sorta feeling too weak to keep trying. It's the thing about God and the Israelites in my bio if you really wanted to know...

@Anonymous I was talking about this last night with my family. So what exactly is it you're worried about ( treat me like I'm stupid and uneducated ). Is it that you have real life concerns and then those verses you look at don't disprove your worries?

@Invalid What were you talking about with your family exactly? You lost me there

Yeah, that's got... nothing at all to do with how I'm feeling. I don't even know what that conflict's over, tbh. And fun fact, I believe Israeli means a citizen of Israel, while Israelite means a blood descendant of the tribes of Israel. But yeah, that has nothing to do with what I'm going through. I've been worried about this for like 2 years before even hearing about any of the stuff going on right now. What's going on with me is purely religious

My issue is sort of like a conflict of religious beliefs. People will say that the Israelites are God's chosen people but that everyone can be grafted into God's kingdom but that Israel still has a special place in God's heart, but when I remind them of the latter portion of that (having a special place with God) and that I'm still not a part of God's people by blood (Bible says we need to be grafted in as wild branches, the Israelites being the natural branches), they get all defensive and try to tell me how God loves everyone. It's like, I didn't disagree with that, I'm just sad about the OTHER part that I didn't disagree with. It's okay if you don't get it, what makes me upset isn't when people don't get it, it's just when others tell me one thing, I bring it back up to them, they misunderstand and tell me that I am wrong when I'm just repeating what they say. And I'm upset when people do that instead of listening to me.

@Anonymous Also it feels like you had a point and a question but you've never had a valid answer. Kind of like if you as someone what 2+2 is and they answer saying blue

@Invalid It feels like I had a question? Hmm... It's always seemed pretty clear to me, tbh. You'd love your family first, so why wouldn't God do the same? Why wouldn't God love Abraham's family first, but also love the other nations? (Abraham's basically the father of all the Israelites) Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean when you say it seems I had a question...

Sorta.

@Anonymous At least I think, something like that

Sorta. Or maybe like blood children and adopted children. Or the love for a spouse vs the love for a friend. No, it's not insulting at all :) Honestly, now that I think of it, I don't really know how to put it into words, but I'm just so sick of never feeling understood when I talk about this -- always trying so hard to get my point across without success -- that I just hate talking about it. I'll feel ill, and even when I don't talk about I'm feeling ill, but should the act of talking make me feel more ill?

@Anonymous Stress can cause illness and make people feel ill. So you just want to be loved in a way you feel is impossible by God? You know you're loved but just don't feel like you'll ever achieve something more, something that may or may not be obtainable?

@Invalid Pretty much, yep.

@Anonymous Ah OK. I believe I get it. Is that your control though? Whether someone or something loved you the way you want to be loved?

@Invalid No. Still doesn't feel good, even if there's a reason why they wouldn't, or for them to put more value in someone else, etc

@Anonymous Have you got a therapist at all? I can see erp being useful here

@Invalid Yes, and I have been using ERP for this for over a year

@Anonymous Are you able to tell me how your erp exercises are constructed? Just curious

@Invalid You mean what I do? Well, I read a verse from the Bible, or read a sermon, etc, then sit with the discomfort. Part of the problem is probably all the rumination I do outside of ERP -- this is something important to me, so it's only natural to ruminate about it, and it's hard not to.

I'll usually try to do something I enjoy afterwards. Maybe I'll also think about how the verses and facts from the Bible fit together in a way that I include everything the Bible says for a brief time.

@Anonymous Can I suggest when you see your therapist next ask if you can talk about why this is an issue. Erp works but sometimes there's some underlying understanding or perception that needs to be addressed. I had that. I feel as if there's something holding you back and I think you feel it too. Talk to them about that. I believe this won't be a problem forever for you

@Invalid I dunno. I've talked about it a decent lot with my therapist, and besides the fact that I ruminate a lot outside of ERP exercises, we haven't been able to figure anything else going on. This might be something I need to learn acceptance about. And I'm not sure I can

@Anonymous You should be able to practice erp exercises outside therapy. It's tougher without the support. I'd persist in asking the therapist about underlying issues that's holding you back. I call them anchors. Just need to find it. I had my own version too

@Invalid Okay. Will keep in mind. Would you mind elaborating me on what you mean by anchors? Do you mean it coule be like an incorrect belief or perspective? Or a past trauma? Or what do you mean exactly? An example might help

I think that's okay. Partly when I do ERP I get really upset how people have left me feeling unheard. That's something I can't control, I can't make others listen if they don't want to. Also, I'm pessimistic and nihilistic. I also feel like maybe some of my worries are accurate, I just need to learn acceptance 🤷‍♂️

@Anonymous Have you told the therapist about feeling unheard? I used to feel like that too. Also, your worries may or may not be accurate, but if they're not in your control, why do you worry about them? Sounds like a blunt question but I'm genuinely curious about the answer

@Invalid I might have told my therapist -- I probably did. How did you feel unheard, can I ask? What changed to make you stop feeling unheard (assuming you feel differently now)? And to answer that question, similarly to others with OCD, I worry because it's important to me (maybe too important for my case). Using an example, imagine if someone's parent didn't love them. It's not in their control, but they might worry about it anyway.

@Anonymous I felt unheard because I believed strongly I was right. I had extremely strong moral based ocd. My therapist helped me see that yeah, maybe I am right, but other people have different standards. They aren't me, they haven't went through my life experiences, and that's OK along with their own standards. I almost felt like I had to fix everyone, which is weird because that's kind of what I do on here as my ocd and my morals were parallel. Difference now is I want to and I don't feel the NEED to, or the "I MUST DO THIS OTHERWISE WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT ME?" so I don't mind that I don't feel unheard anymore. I guess with the help of the therapist, some philosophy and the open mind that I may have been wrong, I changed gradually. And I can relate to the example of maybe my mother doesn't love me. We clashed recently as she has Ocd but she doesn't explain it. So I have no idea what her triggers are, she doesn't want to get better, and I feel like everything i say is like walking on a minefield. I've just come to terms with that she is who she is, respect her boundaries and told her how I felt. We are currently working on doing something together so we have someeto talk about that doesn't trigger her. It would be easier if everyone listened but sometimes presre happy and / or content and don't want their world view shook even if you feel like you could help them or enlighten them. This is OK. It's their life Its like that saying, you can lead a horse to water, but can't force it to drink. I don't know if your interpretation, (which does sound logical to me) will change. what can you do about it though? 🤷‍♂️ Worrying won't change anything. There are many different types of love. All seem equal in my eyes but some will be more sentimental and personal. Sometimes love changes too and evolves into something more something different. There is no formula that will change this for anyone. It is what it is, all we can focus on is what we can do in our own lives. You've probably heard that before so my apologies if it sounds regurgitated

I can see how it would have been frustrating thinking you were right but it not seeming like anyone was listening. I think my situation is similar, but different, so I'm not gonna act like I understand your mind better than you do. 😋 And some Christians believe they know what's right and that if someone disagrees they are probably wrong, which is understandable to feel; but in the case of Christianity, Romans 14 talks about how each person's morals can be different to some extent. So I'm just bringing this up because even religiously, how you felt makes complete sense to me. For me, it's not that people aren't changing their mind about things, but that there are certain aspects I hear people say all the time, but when I bring it up to them they seem defensive. Did I say yet that I went anonymous once and asked in a way as if I knew a Jewish person that thought vice versa about what I thought and I got a very different response when I brought up the same facts and that they were more agreeable with those concepts? I feel as though, in whichever way I need to adjust my thinking, it's on me to do it alone, with no support from others; and I feel this way because of how people don't seem to simply listen and give support when I talk to them but that they always seem to argue with me. And I totally get that phrase about the horse and the water, I feel the same way about getting people to listen to me -- I can talk to them, but I can't make them listen. I'm sorry to hear about your mother, but am glad to hear that you're both looking past your disagreements, which is something we need more of in the world. :) Also, I've got a family member that might have OCD too but says they don't. And I can't make them do anything either. I know each person has different types of love. The way I see it is that they are only sort of equal. Like, you'd always care about any human, no matter if they're on the other side of the world, you'd want them to be safe and happy, you might even consider them "like family"; but when it comes right down to it, if you had to choose, who do you look out for first? After all, as the typical wedding vow goes, for your spouse you'd "forsake all others". I get that God might have different loves for different people. But when I bring it up to people, they don't seem to understand how I feel, or want to listen. And it makes sense for God to give more care to the descendants of those who love Him, but it doesn't feel so good for me... In the end, idk dude... I just don't know...

@Anonymous Sorry for the long reply. Feel free to skim it if you want.

@Anonymous I read it all. The going anonymous bit makes me feels like you could do that as a social experiment. That's interesting. And yeh, with the wedding vows I understand that too. When you do bring it up to people and and they seem like they understand or want to listen, maybe they do. Maybe the understand completely but have been raised with another interpretation. It's almost like "if I don't hear it, it doesn't effect me lalalalala". They don't want their interpretation undone and not understanding how you feel is just a byproduct of that sense of comfort they have. They're happy and content with it and maybe what you say rocks the boat a little too much for them. This next bit I'm unsure if it'll help you. You may or may not be able to be loved the same. There's no way of telling. It almost feels like your self worth is based on external factors. If you leave that to something that's not in control, you leave your self worth to chance. Why do that? Maybe look inward and love yourself more, that way your self worth is self sufficient. Also another perspective I could see is maybe God feels that way about the descendents because he felt they needed it. Maybe they weren't able to take care and love themselves as they were too devoted or fixated on god. Seems God went soft on them. Maybe it's written down almost like a subtle invitation or challenge to all those out of this "special place in God's heart" to find self love and compassion. God works in mysterious ways right? Not everything is always straight forward. I mean why would that purposefully be written down?

I dunno. Maybe it makes them uncomfortable. But you said some stuff pretty similarly to my aunt, who I've talked about this stuff with. She said that it's okay to love and be loved differently. She even said that she hopes God loves me more than her (even if that's all-talk and not true, either way she meant to be nice so whatever). But she still spends a lot of time arguing instead of listening. And about worth. Existentially speaking, what matters? To me, if God exists, then it's Him and what He thinks. That's what makes sense to me, anyway. So if I value anything or anyone, I'm going to naturally value what He does, as you might value the things a close loved one values. So if God values dogs more than cats, I'll probably do the same. I'll do the same even when it comes to my own self. You might think that's off or petty of me, but it's okay to disagree Also, I'm not saying it's bad of God or anyone to love people differently or have some closer people or love some more than others or have certain people be particularly special to them. I'm just sad about the concept right now, having a hard time coping personally. I know it's something I probably need to accept. And I feel like I need support, not an argument that it's something I'm wrong about or something I shouldn't worry about

I think that's one interpretation of why He created us. I could be wrong, but I don't think the Bible spells out why

I know a lot of people feel that way. And of course there are a lot of explanations as to why He's not selfish for that, like that He gave everyone life, all their loved ones, and blessings, and that He's been kind to people and cares about them, and the reason why He wants us to follow Him is because He's the only one that can really provide life and everything else for people. But again, that's only one interpretation of why it's okay for Him to expect love from people, and further more that's only one interpretation for why He created people. Nobody knows for sure why He created us, or why He says to love Him exactly. You can't know the mind of another person, and that includes God. Also, I wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to be rude or push my beliefs on you, just answering to your comments. And no, I'm not upset about your honesty, I prefer that over any other response. :) And I'm alright to talk about this stuff as much as you want, you won't offend me. And I'm not saying at all that your perspective of Him seeming self centered is outlandish, probably most Christians have thought similar thoughts, and a lot of them probably aren't up front that they've had such thoughts. In the end I figure, I want to know the truth, no matter what that means for me, if I'm a bad person or if I'm wrong about my religion or whatever, and as much as possible I'll try to follow the truth, and Jesus says that He's the Truth, and if God knows my feelings and that I'm willing to follow whatever the truth is, that's all I can really do. But that's just the way I see it, anyway, just my perspective.

@Anonymous Again, sorry for the long reply. I can send a TLDR if you want

And how do you think I feel? From my perspective, God could be racist for all I know! I'm not above religious doubt. :)

@Anonymous *racist about the love for the Jews thing

I agree, fear mongering is wrong. And it does sort of seem like fear mongering. But it could just seem like it and actually be something different. I believe most Christians will say that they don't do good to avoid hell exactly, or not entirely, but because it is the right thing to do after Jesus died on the cross for us. Christians believe that being good CAN'T save you, that's not how it works, and that all people are already going to hell, but that if you put your faith in Jesus who says He payed your price and follow Him you can be saved, but that means to also do what He wants and to be good to others -- if you say you follow God but still act very badly, that's not really following God. So, yeah, I think a lot of Christians would agree that you should be nice without ulterior motives. I think a lot of Christians look at it as like with a relationship with a parent. Your parent might say "don't do such and such or you'll be grounded and get a whooping", but is that fear mongering? From one view, it sounds like it. Or it's a warning, that if you don't be kind, your actions will have consequences, given not to be rude but to remind them of that fact. And in some cases, fear itself isn't "bad" but could be simply a warning, like doing something dangerous and being afraid reminds you to be careful. Maybe it has to do with natures of the person who repents and of the person who doesn't? The person who listens to God, might be the one to do it on earth AS WELL AS in heaven, while those who don't wouldn't listen to God on earth OR in the afterlife. But that's just speculation But I think this verse agrees with you and me about fear mongering: ‬‬"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:18‬ ‭NIV) https://1john.bible/1-john-4-18

@Anonymous TLDR, just read the last part. I should've probably led with that

Aw, shucks. Thanks. 😊 But honestly, my knowledge in this is insufficient to actually be able to answer many theological questions with accuracy, but I'm happy to talk about them! I'm just another human in the world, with many of the same questions. I don't think school is trying to teach much about religion, they just kind of skim it it seems, and sort of more of as a brief history class. At least, that's how it seems in public schools. I know the whole Bible looks big and daunting, but the New Testament is a fraction of the size, and that's when Jesus shows up as a child, so I would probably recommend reading the New Testament first -- starting with one of the first four books -- to anyone considering learning more about Christianity. What's the harm in reading the Bible even if you don't necessarily believe it? You don't have to believe something to research it. I know a little bit about a few other religions, but I got what I know from other Christian sources, so I can't say I know much about those either.