Dude01

Date posted: 3d ago

It's about the Themes, you can't convince me otherwise

"The themes don't matter, it's the OCD that's the real culprit!" I don't buy that. How's that? I didn't have this crap until the real event themes came along. I wasn't born with OCD, I didn't have it from a young age, etc. This was learned, this was real event theme triggered, this was a bad habit that kept on on going and never died, the frequency just picked up and now it's a daily hell. This wasn't happening before the actual themes. Which makes sense. It's a result of being "stuck" in a cycle of guilt, shame, and constant cognitive challenges to "deal" with past deeds. I've very skeptical of any future solution. The fact that there doesn't seem to be any permanent solution for real event OCD is defeating and depressing. I don't know how people "beat OCD" without some level of delusion mindset or baked out of their mind in medication. Doesn't seem to be a holistic or real solution to this. Just more of the same hellish routines. I'm just very pessimistic, it's been years. Where is the hope. Sick of being stuck like this.

Real Events OCD

nae nae

Date posted: 3d ago

OCD latches onto what matters most to us, whether it’s a real event, a fear, a person, etc... Even though the themes feel deeply personal, the pattern of OCD (getting stuck in rumination, compulsions, and self-doubt) is the same for everyone. So, when people use the phrase "the themes don't matter," they're saying that in terms of recovery. OCD is treated the same, no matter the theme. It's learning to break out of that vicious cycle we've gotten into. I've only been recently diagnosed, and I'm still discovering many new things about myself and how to manage this disorder, but I understand how terrifying and defeating it feels. When things first spiraled out of control for me about a year ago, I didn't have a single clue what was happening to me. It was all triggered because I remembered some events that happened in childhood. Having an obsession centered around a real event is so difficult because that guilt and shame can almost feel reasonable when, in reality, it most likely isn't. At least, not to this extreme extent. But that's how I felt for a long time. Learning OCD doesn't have some magical cure was also discouraging, but I still believe it's possible to get to a point where it's not debilitating. I'm still very early into my recovery journey, but I am nowhere near the point I was before. I've read stories and posts of people who have recovered without medication. It's definitely possible, but some people also need it to get them to a point where they're able to actually focus on doing the treatment or exposures rather than on their compulsions and thoughts. I think it's perfectly understandable that you'd grow pessimistic, but please don't lose hope just yet :( You aren't alone in this, and there are other options.

Dude01

Date posted: 3d ago

Thanks for your kind words :) The problem is I don't see any hopeful options or any "real solution" to this imo, so I'm going to be stuck like this for decades or til I die it seems. I am perpetually stuck in a dilemma of hell. Seems there are only a few options and none of them are good: Option 1 - Constantly doubt / debate / deal with the truth / ruminate (current option) (casualty = mental hell / anxiety / no peace of mind) Option 2 - Accept the "truth" per se and perpetually hate yourself (casualty= your Identity as a "good person") Option 3 - (ERP?) Lie to yourself / open ended "maybe yes maybe no" / be delusional (casualty = your Integrity and Peace of Mind) Maybe some type of acceptance with forgiveness / self compassion or ERP (both haven't tried) because I "deal" with things and then they're "challenged" daily with a new random thing to ruminate over, but none of these current options (that I'm aware of) seem like a "good" outcome at all. Just lose-lose, pick your poison type stuff.

nae nae

Date posted: Yesterday

@Dude01 Oof, I've been there. I'd spend all day ruminating, then end it feeling like I'd "solved" my thoughts, only to wake up the next day and do it all over again. It's so draining 😮‍💨 Option one is definitely a no-go. When you're constantly questioning your memories, thoughts, etc... It'll lead you nowhere. It's a vicious cycle that only feeds into OCD. You might get temporary relief when you hit that point of feeling like you've "dealt" with it, but it'll usually come back worse. Option two... I thought the same when I started dealing with real events. How are we supposed to just accept something that might go against our current morals, or it isn't something we're proud of? It's not easy, but once I sort of came to terms with the fact that whatever I'm worrying about is in the past, and that no matter how many times I ruminate or question the validity of the memories (whether you did or didn't make a mistake), it's not going to change things. The only thing we can control is the present. So, what will you do from this point on? Making a mistake doesn't make you a "bad person." It makes you human. It doesn't define who you are right now. If it's something you regret, that's a clear sign of growth! :) And... third option! ERP can sort of seem like "faking it till you make it," but it's more than that. You don't have to believe what you're saying, but it's the repeated exposure to these responses (non-engagement responses) that, with time, reinforces the idea to your brain that uncertainty is unavoidable in life and needs to be tolerated, rather than "resolved" (with the urge to do compulsions, like ruminating). This is because it creates new neural connections and eventually new neural pathways.

Anonymous

User type: OCD Conqueror

Date posted: 3d ago

In my opinion, the way to deal with real event, is to accepted that you may have done x,y,z. It's to learn to accept yourself even if you did do it. Which is absolutely possible. There is not a soul on earth that can't learn to accept themselves. And to accept that the potential consequences of your actions MAY occur. That seems awful, but it's the way out. I don't believe exposures are enough. That's my opinion. Exposures don't take away guilt, shame, etc. Also, if you are struggling with this theme because of your inability to accept yourself or your future or the inability to get past the guilt, the OCD won't stop. If may switch to a different theme. Even if it's related. I've had real event morph into harm. They are very related. One is in the past. One is in the future.

nae nae

Date posted: 3d ago

I agree! Also, accepting that it's in the past. No matter how much we wish to change it, we can't. All we can do is continue to move forward. We all make mistakes, but what matters is that we learn from them. It's how we grow.

Dude01

Date posted: 3d ago

Thank you for this! The problem is I don't see any hopeful options or any "real solution" to this imo, so I'm going to be stuck like this for decades or til I die it seems. I am perpetually stuck in a dilemma of hell, where I'm still trying to "define" past things. Like especially for stuff done as a kid, like is someone responsible/accountable for that or not, or do you just say "well I was a kid it doesn't matter" etc. Seems there are only a few options and none of them are good: Option 1 - Constantly doubt / debate / deal with the truth / ruminate (current option) (casualty = mental hell / anxiety / no peace of mind) Option 2 - Accept the "truth" per se and perpetually hate yourself (casualty= your Identity as a "good person") Option 3 - (ERP?) Lie to yourself / open ended "maybe yes maybe no" / be delusional (casualty = your Integrity and Peace of Mind) Maybe some type of acceptance with forgiveness / self compassion or ERP (both haven't tried) because I "deal" with things and then they're "challenged" daily with a new random thing to ruminate over, but none of these current options (that I'm aware of) seem like a "good" outcome at all. Just lose-lose, pick your poison type stuff.

Anonymous

User type: OCD Conqueror

Date posted: 3d ago

@Dude01 Maybe stop seeing yourself as a good or bad person. But a person who sometimes does good and sometimes does bad. You are way too complex to write off as good or bad. We all do good, bad, and neutral stuff. I'm not pleased with my past. No one fully is. But even the 'worst' of people, people locked up for life for example, can forgive and accept themselves. They can see themselves as complex. They had an upbringing that influenced them, people around them that influenced them, a temperament, a biology, etc. People make mistakes for understandable reasons often, even if the decision is bad. You don't see a good option because you are stuck in one narrow mindset. That's not a insult. I live there also much of the time. You see yourself as different than everyone else. Would you treat your children bad for the stuff you did? I doubt it.

Dude01

Date posted: 3d ago

@Anonymous - Lol no I agree I have a narrow mindset and feel 100% stuck. I think the dilemma I'm struggling with is how would I forgive/accept something I did if the thing(s) that I've defined/dealt with are constantly be challenged and questioned. So it's always like this endless open question of "ok it's dealt with / it's not dealt with / how to do deal with it / what is this new challenge to that / etc." Then it's like, ok do I just go to ERP and go "well maybe yes maybe no" I don't have kids but probably wouldn't treat them bad if they did same stuff, but that's unconditional love, parents love their kids no matter what. And I wouldn't say I'm a people pleaser or care about being judged per se, it's more about how to live with myself with past mistakes, integrity, etc. I think you're right that acceptance is probably the best option but it seems from where I'm at it's not a fool proof option as far as peace of mind 'cause someone's identity and feelings about themselves can take a hit?

Anonymous

User type: OCD Conqueror

Date posted: 3d ago

@Dude01 I see what you mean. I've been reading work by Albert Ellis, a well known psychologist about accepting myself. It's extremely helpful. It can be very hard to forgive ourselves. Extremely hard. I understand that. But you can. It will just take hard work. Good luck. You can do it. Also, know that a lot of us feel this way, that we can't forgive ourselves. You're not alone.

jennamax20

Date posted: 3d ago

I will agree that I have had multiple themes and real event (mixed with pocd) is by far the hardest.

jennamax20

Date posted: 3d ago

@jennamax20 However I have improved greatly with treatment

djflorio

User type: OCD Conqueror

Date posted: 3d ago

I hear your frustration. I know you say that no one can convince you otherwise, but you posted on here so maybe there's a tiny part of you that wouldn't mind some discussion around this. The reason we say the themes aren't what matters is that the emotions we're dealing with are completely normal and human. They become problematic when we try to push them away and solve the thoughts surrounding them. Guilt about a real event isn't a problem on its own. Guilt is a natural human emotion that helps us learn not to do something again. When it turns into chronic guilt, or a lasting feeling of shame even after the lesson has been learned, it becomes problematic. This tends to happen when we latch onto the thoughts surrounding the feelings, and feel that we need to do something about them. That's where OCD comes in. OCD isn't actually the thoughts themselves. This is something that I believe many people in the OCD community get wrong. Very often people word it as, "OCD is making me think X Y and X," or ask the question, "is this a 'real' thought or an 'OCD' thought?" But OCD is not a disease that injects your mind with specific, troubling thoughts, it's simply the tendency to get *stuck* on those troubling thoughts. It's an overactive error detection system in the mind. This triggers the "Ironic Process," which causes those thoughts to arise more frequently and intensely. This overactive system usually requires some sort of triggering event or life circumstance to manifest itself in a debilitating way (this is know in the psychology world as the "diathesis-stress" model, which is the theory that certain disorders are a result of pre-dispositions combined with environmental stressors). So in that sense, you're right that you weren't "born with" OCD. However, this real event issue is one of many things that could have caused this pattern to emerge. Overcoming OCD doesn't mean completely getting rid of the guilt or the thoughts surrounding it. It means not feeding the cycle of compulsions that turn the healthy emotions into chronic, debilitating anxiety. As for guilt specifically, you may find this talk interesting. He digs into some of the neurobiology and social implications of guilt and shame: https://dharmapunxnyc.podbean.com/e/guilt-and-shame-1602886465/

Ironborn

Date posted: 23w ago

Is this beyond ocd?

I'm reaching out in hopes of finding others who might relate to my experiences or offer insights. I'm dealing with a complex interplay of OCD, depression, and existential anxiety, and I'm struggling to make sense of it all. Here's what I'm experiencing: I have OCD with various manifestations, along with episodes of depression. I find myself in a cyclical pattern where, after a few weeks, I start to remind myself about my depressive tendencies. This reminder seems to trigger a cycle that actually makes me feel more depressed or at least more aware of depressive symptoms. When this happens, I often experience feelings of nihilism and existential dread. I try to think about my family - my two young boys and my wife - to find motivation or a sense of purpose, but this strategy often backfires, making me feel even more anxious and depressed. I constantly check my feelings, wondering if they're depressive or anxious. At the same time, I fear that my feelings of anxiety and panic might spiral out of control. I think about my emotions and thoughts on a meta-level, which means I'm not just experiencing feelings, but I'm also constantly analyzing the fact that I'm experiencing them. There's an existential component to my struggles, a fear of depression and anxiety itself, and a sense that this might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Perhaps most frustratingly, I often have feelings, thoughts, or sensory experiences that I can't explain or put into words. I feel like I've never heard of these before, which leaves me feeling deeply misunderstood. Does anyone else experience something similar? How do you cope with this complex web of symptoms and experiences? I'm particularly interested in hearing from those who've found ways to break the cycle of meta-cognition and self-fulfilling anxiety. Any insights, shared experiences, or strategies would be deeply appreciated. Thank you for your time and understanding.

FairyWithaKnife

Date posted: 21w ago

I just don't know

I've gotten diagnosed with OCD and I'm in therapy. But I'm worried that I don't have OCD/that I got misdiagnosed. And recently I'm worried that I've just gotten myself into a habit of thinking of dirty minded or just plain old terrible things after I see/hear certain things because I feel like I need to prove I have OCD or else I'm faking(sometimes this goes away). Or that I'm just mimicking symptoms of ocd to cope with real problems I may have and that im just really deep into denial. I don't know...I'm just so tired. I mean, what if I really am what I think I am and this is my brains only way of coping? I don't even really feel anything towards most of the thoughts anymore either I just know they go against my values and I don't want them. I don't know if that's because I'm so mentally exhausted, I just don't care, or that the thoughts are true and I'm comfortable with them.

ConstantPain

Date posted: 10w ago

Dealing with a lot. Need support and company.

My last and almost life long theme/sub-theme largely subsided recently and my ocd felt like it wasn’t even an issue. Then I went on winter break from uni and being alone made my mind come up with a whole new topic to obsess over. TLDR on my fears, my advisor wouldn’t email me back for a while about signing up for classes so my mind started to worry “what if he doesn’t in time and you can’t enroll this semester and you lose this whole life you just built and all these new friends” So when that issue was resolved my mind found other scarier ways I could be uprooted from my current life and friends that I’ve grown so attached to. Then my mind remembered back when I was struggling with false memories and scrupulosity and I essentially made a post on a forum 2 and a half years ago saying I did something or was convinced I did something that I never actually did. Now I’ve been spiraling about someone finding it reporting me and I either get seen as a horrible person or arrested or something over something I never actually did but “admitted” to out of fear of going to hell. My mind won’t let it go and keeps finding new reasons for it to be “valid” “logical” or even inevitable. I feel like it’s just hanging over my head and I can never rest easy. Especially when I try to focus on my daily tasks or plan for the future I get this horrible flair up of “why plan for the future when this could come back in that future and you get uprooted from all of it” my mind won’t rest without certainty being uprooted won’t happen but certainty doesn’t exist, at least not with ocd. This sucks and I miss being care free.

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It's about the Themes, you can't convince me otherwise

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