How do you deal with "undefined" things?

So I think what's been so specifically tough for me (idk if this is what others go through with the real event stuff) is that ... Well I basically have this mental system... - Something has been dealt with -- which means it's "ok" it's "acceptable" assessment of ___. Rumination to "problem solve" with the intrusive thought. - CONSTANT inquiries to Challenge that previous assessment conclusion i.e. "no that hasn't actually been deal with, you didn't think about ____ or this other angle or this other new thing related to it" etc. Idk how tf you fix that with ERP? Idk up from down at this point Is the "system" OCD? Should people not try to problem solve (even though it's actually rumination)? Should I not engage with the "challenges?" HOW TF does Peace of Mind actually happen when the answers seem to be "you must be delusional" or "you must leave (significant) things un-dealt with / open ended" Like, what's that actual solution here? Hopefully this made sense. Thanks

Real Events OCD

Kai S.

User type: OCD Conqueror

Date posted: 19w

This sounds like OCD to me, as it's an exhausting compulsion I used to have, though for a different theme. No, I don't think you should engage with the challenges. When does it end? There are always potential angles you haven't considered, but is it really constructive to try to identify and consider them all? No, because it's impossible. You need to practice letting things go, even if it feels wrong to do so. The answer is not "you must leave something open-ended" but instead "you must sit with the possibility that something remains to be dealt with," because the reality of the situation is that there are an infinite number of possible conclusions and none of them are certain to be 100% correct. So in ERP, that might mean letting the intrusive thought happen but resisting the compulsion to revisit whatever your initial conclusion was. Easier said than done (I know from experience), but you wouldn't be here if it was easy.

Dude01

Date posted: 19w

Thanks! But what has been the effect from that? Don't you feel like it's an open-ended unsolved mystery type of thing? I just don't know how that option would give me lasting peace of mind on this.

Kai S.

User type: OCD Conqueror

Date posted: 19w

@Dude01 The fact of the matter is that it probably *won't* give you lasting peace of mind. That was the worst part of having to let things go for me. I wanted constants, things that I could always rely on that felt set in stone and unchangeable. I wanted to come to a conclusion and have my feelings around it remain the same forever. Like you, anything else felt completely unacceptable to me - I felt like I *needed* my conclusions to be perfect and complete or I would never have peace of mind. It was a miserable existence, having to repeatedly check my thoughts but never being satisfied. You will never be satisfied if you continue going down your current course of action. The urges to challenge your conclusions will never end. Your sense of integrity will always be shaky because it is relying on something that was not on stable ground to begin with. "Peace of mind" is illusive and can never be fully relied on. If you have to continue checking your thoughts or memories, they are *not* secure. Memories are not perfect snapshots and change over time due to how human brains are wired, and that means your conclusions have to as well, so you will never be able to reach one that is perfect. And that probably feels terrible and wrong and completely unacceptable, but it's the truth. (Deleted what I originally wrote here because it could just feed more into OCD or turn into a scrupulosity theme.) You need to move forward, as impossible as that may feel. I know when I was in your shoes I would have been completely unwilling to do that, so I'm not trying to convince you now, but I hope that saying all this can at least plant the seed in your mind.

Dude01

Date posted: 19w

@Kai S. - As far as memories of the past stuff it's pretty clear, I've probably written it down etc. What's more constantly changing are like the "challenges" / "inquiries" of how to characterize / define it and part of it is "ok" / dealt with and what isn't etc. And then for that it's constantly questioned/challenged. What if someone was "good" in the past and good now? :D I'm envious of those people because they probably have little guilt and shame to mess with their head or can shrug it off easier. Everyone always says "people usually regret what they Didn't do in life" but I disagree, it can be both and it's the stuff people do that wasn't great that can give OCD! I have to sleep but want to say thank you so much for your help Kai, it's been helpful! Will respond to this more tomorrow

Dude01

Date posted: 19w

@Dude01 - For example -- (random example) Someone can say "I was 10 yrs old and stole a candy bar." That part is pretty factual, but then they could ruminate and go "oh no it was technically stealing" "oh it doesn't matter I was only a kid" etc. It's all those extra things.

Dude01

Date posted: 16w

@Kai S. - Sorry for delayed response. I think the only way Ima get out of this is to get some external help and tell people close to me that I have OCD (for now) since I believe it can be beat (somehow). No one knows I have OCD. I've literally tried to do this on my own trying every option and I'm still stuck with it.

Dude01

Date posted: 8w

@Dude01 - Sorry if I didn't respond as well as I could've. I think I could've slowed down and read what you wrote better. I think what you wrote is a good example. We'll use your example 1) Real event --> "I stole the candy bar" 2) Factually it is stealing 3) Intrusive thought --> "Stealing is bad" = you're a bad person / you're a thief etc Ok so what next? I can't say "maybe it happened maybe it didn't," it definitely Happened. So I feel like ERP's "solution" is "it doesn't matter if you stole, or who cares if you stole, or who cares if you're a thief etc, just don't think about it, it doesn't matter." When it reality, it kinda does matter how we define the event. If I can't even set on what the event actually was (e.g. stealing), then how am I to get over it? And if I'm supposed to just say "oh well I don't know what it is" (when I actually Know it's stealing), that just sounds like intentional self delusion. I do think I need to get to a point of self-compassion and self-acceptance etc. but for that I'm having a hard time with that because I'm still stuck in this endless loop of the definition of what the R/E was constantly being "challenged" even after I've deal with (via rumination) what it actually is.

Dude01

Date posted: 19w

It's just ALWAYS THERE. It's either a) delayed rumination b) something is "dealt with" c) dealt with but ALWAYS challenged later and constantly so it's always there in the background. It never goes away. And then someone saying "well just be cool with that outcome -- of some open-ended conclusion" --- to me that's not peace of mind, that's ignoring the open question that matters. It seems like a cop out. I'm not good at that. It is very important -- it is a non negotiable type thing -- for me to KEEP MY INTEGRITY and be a REAL person not a delusional person who has to lie to themselves to move on. Therein lies the real dilemma! This is why I'm stuck. There is no good answer!

djflorio

User type: OCD Conqueror

Date posted: 21w

How ERP helped when I was afraid of existence itself

I used to get caught in a loop with existential thoughts very frequently. Every question made my stomach drop: (TW: existential questions) … … ... "Why does anything exist at all? What will death be like? Is anything even real? Is there any meaning to this? Is the universe infinitely big, and if not, what's beyond it? Are there multiverses? Has the universe been around forever? Will the universe end for good, or will it keep going forever? What is forever like? What even IS reality?" It would get so overwhelming that I remember lying on the floor in a fetal position for hours because I felt like there was no escape. I spent most of my days reading articles and watching videos about theoretical astrophysics and philosophy in a desperate attempt to "figure it all out." Of course that only made me more anxious, raised more questions, and kept me trapped in the cycle. Things started to improve once I learned to turn TOWARD reality, rather than away from it, and ERP really helped me do that. I learned that these questions weren't the problem. I learned that I can actually handle the anxiety that arises when exposed to these ideas and concepts. I don't have to figure anything out to make the anxiety go away; it arises and passes away on its own. Ironically, bringing myself into the present moment and becoming more aware of reality helped me escape the cycle of existential dread. Because of that, this topic no longer takes over my life. If I'm triggered by something I see, hear, or think, I may still feel a little twang of anxiety, but then it just goes away. "Maybe, maybe not" has been the single most useful phrase of my life. Do you ever get trapped in a cycle of existential questions? Are you worried that the ERP approach would be too scary to handle? If so, I'm happy to give my advice.

Existential OCD

Dude01

Date posted: 19w

It's about the Themes, you can't convince me otherwise

"The themes don't matter, it's the OCD that's the real culprit!" I don't buy that. How's that? I didn't have this crap until the real event themes came along. I wasn't born with OCD, I didn't have it from a young age, etc. This was learned, this was real event theme triggered, this was a bad habit that kept on on going and never died, the frequency just picked up and now it's a daily hell. This wasn't happening before the actual themes. Which makes sense. It's a result of being "stuck" in a cycle of guilt, shame, and constant cognitive challenges to "deal" with past deeds. I've very skeptical of any future solution. The fact that there doesn't seem to be any permanent solution for real event OCD is defeating and depressing. I don't know how people "beat OCD" without some level of delusion mindset or baked out of their mind in medication. Doesn't seem to be a holistic or real solution to this. Just more of the same hellish routines. I'm just very pessimistic, it's been years. Where is the hope. Sick of being stuck like this.

Real Events OCD

ocdonedidily1

Date posted: 17w

Perfectionism OCD and rumination

There’s this one situation that I haven’t stopped thinking about from last night . So basically, I was reading 'The power of Now' which is a book that I love so much and really got me into spirituality. It’s been so helpful for my OCD and rumination but it’s also been pretty triggering for it as of late, so I’ve taken a long break from consistently reading it. The excerpt I read was about abundance and how its not about being bountiful, necessarily in material things but realizing and being grateful for the things that exist in your life now and in doing so, you will open yourself up to more good things. I understood it but I re-read it a lot because I didn't feel confident enough to explain it to someone else. but otherwise I LOVED IT. It made me feel so at peace, I agreed with it, and it gave me hope to start focusing on the good things in my life rather than the bad. So when I went to bed I rehearsed myself explaining it to someone on a podcast and then all these questions started flooding in like “why should I only focus on the good and aren't we supposed to accept the good and bad? Aren’t those the values of Buddha and spirituality” “Ya, we're supposed to accept the good and the bad but why?- so we can feel more good??? And isn't the point of OCD to not label things as good and bad? and why should I focus on the good- so I can feel good? why should I feel good? because I'm worthy of it? why am I worthy of it? because I'm a good person and do good things? well I’ve also done bad things so why shouldn't I consider that. I just don’t understand why I should feel good without it being selfish. And then this went on for like 2 or 3 hours. Like holy shit. I over explain these ideas and concepts that I resonate with to the point where they don't even make sense to me anymore. It becomes very existensial very quick. And I’m not suicidal but these questions make me feel hopeless in society for some reason?? And myself. Like if everything contradicts everything then what’s the point to life? If nothing can be understood or explained in a senseful way, then how do people move forward and make decisions, like AT ALL? There’s never a right or perfect answer and I feel like with any decision I make in regards, I’m doing a compulsion either way. If I don’t answer them, then I’m avoiding it and if I do then I’m checking and seeking reassurance. I’m sorry if this was way too long and over-explained I just need some advice or to know if anyone can relate in any way. Also, I’m sorry if some of those back-to-back questions were triggering.

Be a part of the largest OCD Community

Share your thoughts so the Community can respond

How do you deal with "undefined" things?

Related posts

Be a part of the largest OCD Community

Be a part of the largest OCD Community