Detail thought

@Tyconia Thank you this is helpful, I’m just so afraid. Like less then a year I could hold baby’s without any thought and now this. I’m just super afraid I will do it, even I obviously don’t want to. Like if I say the thought alone (not out loud just move my lips) so how I will not actually do it in real time. And also what do you mean do it to prove there is no harm in it? cause it will mean that I have actually acted on it

@Tyconia And also thank you for you comments. It’s help

@OrMsB I think he/she means to say the words (to yourself) out loud so that you sort of “face the fear” and let your brain hear what it’s afraid of (exposure). It’ll feel weird and wrong, and that’s the logic part of you knowing how weird and wrong it would be to say that to a baby. As far as seeing the baby, just do it. It feels impossible and like you’re gonna do something bad, but you’re not. It’s just our stupid, lying OCD telling us we will. I used to fear breathing through my nostrils as I had a thought because (to me) it was like I was saying it. OCD is creative. A liar, but a creative one, I’ll give it that

@OrMsB Ok, let me clarify a bit. Now I'm not a therapist, and I don't know everything about you, but I do know the aspects of OCD and this theme that I see in the situation. I'm suggesting that you at least go. There's two things that I think could be helpful. One would be facing the fear that you will move your mouth by sitting there amidst family. The other approach would be to actually move your mouth about the thought while near people. The reason I say this is because there are different types of intrusive thoughts and different ways to deal with them. In the case of having an intrusive about actually doing something terrible, you take the approach of resisting any compulsions that make you feel secure and reassured so you learn that you don't need compulsions to resist that feeling and calm down. In the case of an intrusive thought saying like, "oh if you look at that person a certain way, it makes you racist", then it can be helpful to do the thing your OCD is worried about because it removes the assurance that you're not (fill in the blank). Both of these remove reassurance, and retrain your brain to not listen to what OCD is worrying about. In your case, it seems like the thing you're worrying about, moving your mouth, is something that OCD is just telling you would be awful and make you a bad person. So a good exposure would be to do the opposite of what it tells you and no longer avoid the action. Then you sit with the uncertainty that you may be a bad person for doing it, and try to let that anxiety pass on its own

@Tyconia What do you mean by moving my mouth around my family? Like just move them. And for the move my lips to the thought when I do it alone I start to get anxious so if I do it around people and around the person I told in the post I will not know how to live with myself. Like right know I’m moving my lips to thought to see how I feel and how I look so I won’t do it on real time

@OrMsB Ok, let me ask you this instead- what exactly does your OCD say will happen if you say the intrusive thoughts without a voice?

@Tyconia That I acted on the thought, and my life would be over

@OrMsB Ok, so think about that a sec. Would your life be over if you did this particular thing? Is it actually harmful if you're not even saying anything?

@Tyconia Technically no, but I will not know how to forgive myself. And physically it’s not harmful but mentally it is because it’s disgusting to even saying that without a voice in front of people. And is it weird if I’m not even that anxious, like I’m but not really. But the urge is so big like I could feel my tongue and the thought is so strong

@Tyconia And my brain tells me that if do it I’m one more step of being a p/ bad person. Cause I have this urge to every person I see physically

@OrMsB Ok, maybe, maybe not. That's the point here, is that we don't know for sure. But OCD doesn't get to make that call. If you want to push against that fear, you may want to consider doing the thing you're thinking about as an exposure. By actually doing the thing, you and your OCD have to face the uncertainty. Does it make you a bad person? Maybe. Are you one step closer to becoming p? Who knows. Is this harmful/should you never forgive yourself? Maybe, maybe not. Either way, you're not gonna worry about it. See how that really could address multiple OCD fears at once, and why it could be important to do in order to make progress? Your OCD is going to say and do many things to try and keep you worried about your obsessions. What you want to do with your exposures is take the urgency away from the thoughts, and not listen to them. I feel like you're largely listening to your fears right now. Not doing this thing that brings up worry for you is telling the OCD part of your brain that it is right- that its fears are true and that the only way to stop them is to worry all the time and stay on alert. So I'm just suggesting that you do the scary thing and, over time, prove it wrong I would tell you that sitting by people and letting go of the worry that you'll say the thoughts with no voice is just as effective, but I'm not sure it is. It would still leave you feeling uncertain about if you'll do it and what would happen if you did. But it would also keep you avoiding this thing out of fear, telling your mind that it's just as bad as it thought, when really it's harmless and you're just afraid

@OrMsB And let me also say, I completely get it if that's too much right now. But for now, I encourage you to go see family, hold the baby, and all that. You'll still find that it helps with the fear that something bad will happen Also, use those times when the thoughts and fear naturally comes up as an exposure. Like, "oh will I say I want to r--- this person? Do I actually want to?" Maybe, maybe not, and move on until the anxiety subsides There's many different approaches. It's just about what you're currently ready for. I just think that if you handle some harder things you'll notice that they won't end up as bad as you thought, and you'll make a lot of progress with OCD

@Tyconia It’s feel like I have to worry about it, like I have plenty of other intrusive thoughts with other themes but this? Is the scariest one that I experience and I feel like I have to worry

@Tyconia But sometimes I don’t actually feel the anxiety , sometimes the thought is strong and the urge to. And the anxiety is very little, it’s happened sometimes

@OrMsB Yeah, those things can happen. But I encourage you to challenge those feelings. If you feel like you need to worry, actively avoid ruminating and reassuring. If you're not feeling anxious, great, don't let your OCD tell you that you have to. If you feel the urge to do it, then just leave it alone. If you did do it, or thought you did at some point, don't replay the memory to figure out if you did. If you feel like you're a bad person, then for that time, that's how you feel, but it doesn't have to get in your way. These are the ways we starve OCD out, and live the way we want to. It doesn't feel good, and OCD will always come up with something else to make you come back, but it's up to you to recognize that you don't have to listen to it, and that all the attempts OCD is making to have you second guess yourself are a sign that you are beating it

@Tyconia Thank you, but the problem about not feeling little bit anxious is not that I’m trying to doubt myself why I don’t feel anxious . Is that the thought is still there and stuck no matter what I do it’s just stuck until scarier thought come. And I can’t stop doing compulsion because I’m afraid that the thought will always be strong in my head.

@Tyconia Like I really want to delete this app but every time a new thought come or something weird happened I have to look for reassurance

@OrMsB You don't have to though. Maybe a good exposure would be to sit with a draft post open, type it out, and then delete it instead of sending it You're working with a therapist right? If so, have them help you with how to approach this. I know my therapist had to tell me to stop using the app's journal to ruminate, and once I did, things got better But the point is, you have to cut it off from compulsions, and you have to challenge your fears. I know it's very hard in the beginning, but it's possible with consistent effort

@Tyconia She told me to delete the app because I’m on it too much (almost all day because this is so horrible). And I told her I want to stay on this app cause it’s a bit helping so she told me if I want to ask for reassurance so to decrease the time I’m asking for it , and I’m trying but I can’t do it. I feel like I have to ask everything and tell everything to know if it really ocd. So because I’m on it all the time I feel like I just have to cut it cause if i will not I still will ask for reassurance. And also I did delete the app, every day actually I just upload it again because I have to get reassurance

@OrMsB I see. That is tricky. Is your therapist outside of NOCD or not?

@Tyconia Outside cause I don’t live in America

@OrMsB Ah, ok. Well, do you have regular communication with her? Maybe message her about how you feel instead of posting, that way they can help you handle it better than people here will

@Tyconia I’m afraid it’s not acceptable. I feel like this is the week I need therapy the most( because of the family meeting) but I’m going to a vacation so I can’t go to therapy. I do want to write her. But what if she won’t answer be because it’s not apart of our week meeting

@OrMsB Well, it's worth a shot. Usually therapists are available and won't mind you messaging outside of appointments

@Tyconia @Tyconia Hi, I’m sorry if I’m bothering you, I still have the thought about what if I’m going to look at my baby cousin and tell him without a voice (move my lips ) that I will 🍇 him. I WILL NEVER 🍇 MY COUSIN ! But this thought feel so real like I’m 99% sure I’m going to do it. Like I have no control on my lips. My mind tell me to do it so I will get rid of the thought and I really don’t want to. I feel like a bad person. Seeing a baby makes so scared right now. I told my parents I don’t want to go to the family meeting. I don’t know if this is a compulsion but right now I do what I told you here in front of a mirror to lessen the urge and kinda see how I feel. Like I’m sure I will do it cause I feel like I have 0 control on my lips. Do you have tips or erp exposures idea. I’m so scared of this thought because even if I’m not going to do it on family meeting. What if I do it next time I see a baby or next time. I’m so afraid.

@OrMsB I think I have a few ideas -Stand in front of the mirror and let your anxiety be there while avoiding the compulsion. You'll want to check yourself because the mirror is right there, but you'll focus on not doing that -Sit in a public place and just observe people, allowing different thoughts to come up. Maybe note down details about each person, that way you have to really look at them, but then you can also focus on writing down characteristics of them so you're less focused on you anxious thoughts -Write your intrusive thoughts on paper. This is one my therapist had me do a lot. You repeatedly write the thought, like "maybe I want to rape my baby cousin" (don't censor the bad parts) and as the thoughts come up, you try not to respond, and you keep writing it. The important thing is to write continually, and not argue with your thoughts or get stuck in them. You continue the exposure until the anxiety comes down usually, but you could start by going for time. Do it for five minutes first, then eventually try ten, and so on -Go to that family gathering! Don't avoid it. You don't have to get near your baby cousin, maybe just see them from afar, but still, it will be good to not avoid it altogether. You're only making that decision out of fear anyway. I'm sure you'd want to go normally, so it's also important to go for the sake of continuing to live how you'd like to, not how OCD wants to Feel free to use these exposures. Do them in order of how difficult they feel. Start out easier. I don't know how your therapist structures your treatment, but I like what they do at NOCD. They have you make a fear and response list, which writes out all your different obsessions and compulsions, and what triggers them. You use these to make exposures, and those get put in a hierarchy based on how much anxiety they cause, from 1-10. You then do the exposures that are easier, and move toward the harder ones once you no longer have the same level of fear over the ones before. This is a good way to come up with exposures that you'll actually be able to do that still work on addressing your OCD themes

@Tyconia Thank you, really. If I also say my thought (not with a voice) in front of no one just to get rid of the anxiety and become calmer is this a compulsion or erp. And also sometimes when I have this thought I don’t feel anxious but my mind tell me that if I’m not going to do that the thought will stay forever. And I will not handle it. Im afraid im actually going to do it. I broke down to my parents today again and told my mom all the them I had and how much afraid im because of this Pocd. And I told her about this thought and she told me that im not a bad person if im going to do it cause im not actually saying anything and doing anything . But I feel like a monster.And I want to ask her that again to see if she understood what I told her. My mind is saying to me that I have all the life to act on this thought and I’m terrified. And can it make sense that if I’m not anxious about this thought , i still obsessed over her and can’t let go? Like my brain can’t accept that I have this thought and it’s annoying me. And the urge is sooo big. Can it make sense?

@OrMsB Themes*

@OrMsB I want to say I got that if im trying to get rid of a thought she will come back stronger. And I get that , my point is that I just my head to be calm. Like to have this thought and not care but it’s impossible for me. Can meds make my head calmer? I feel like I live in horror movie 24/7. And also I had many intrusive thoughts before Pocd but this theme felt the realest like im actually a p. The only thing that hold me is that I suspect I had ocd befor because I had many themes (harm ocd, rocd, sexual intrusive thoughts about every person, religion ocd, somatic ocd, existential ocd and a bit of hocd). I just need reassurance 24/7 to be calm. I find that my intrusive thought bothers me less when I’m calm. And it may sound weird but I prefer to be anxious because I feel like the anxiety is stopping me from acting on this thought. And without anxiety I feel like my possibilities to act on this thought are higher. So I’m making myself more anxious. I just want to be calm and don’t let the thought bother me

@OrMsB Ok, first, saying the thought without a voice around no one to calm down would be a compulsion because it's a ritual that you're doing to quell the fear. Second, you absolutely can have obsessions that don't cause anxiety that are still OCD since your mind is telling you that if you don't do the compulsion, you'll keep having the thought, and you're worried that in the future you won't be able to handle it. Third, I'm sorry to hear that you broke down again. It's alright, and it's ok to get help from your parents, but make sure they're actually helping. Make sure they know about your obsessions, compulsions, and triggers and have them learn about what is actually helpful to OCD. Having them help you calm down is good, but in the long run, having them assure you that you're not a bad person, etc. will not actually help the OCD (you should know this, because it's know different than the amount of times you post similar questions here, and your OCD is never satisfied with that assurance). So, if they know what your symptoms look like, and they know the right way to support you, then they can help. Another thing you could do is have them help you with exposures. Like, if you ever decide that you're ready to face the fear of saying the thoughts without a voice in front of someone, you could ask your mom to sit across from you as you do so. That can help you get started on exposures. They could also check in with you every few minutes during an exposure to ask how your anxiety is on a scale from 1-10, and encourage you to keep avoiding compulsions until the anxiety comes down. I think if you keep all these things in mind, you'll start to make progress

@OrMsB Also, I have a link my therapist sent me about a resource for parents. I can try to find it and link it here

@Tyconia I will do it. I’m glad to have them, they really want to help me and they can’t see me suffer. Thank you🙏

@Tyconia If you could I would love to