How ERP helped when I was afraid of existence itself

I completely understand how important these questions can seem. The DPDR stuff used to be extremely triggering for me. What helped was understanding that the feeling of being "disconnected" from reality is basically the brain's response to overstimulation. The theory is that when you get overwhelmed, the regions of the brain that deal with information processing and concepts kind of take a break. Almost like how a circuit breaker shuts down one part of the circuit to prevent overloading the rest of it. When it happens, rather than trying to get rid of the feeling or getting lost in the thoughts that come with it, it's best to just ride it out. Recognize that you feel overwhelmed or stressed, and allow whatever you feel to be there. In terms of being afraid that ERP won't help you, I understand that too. It can be hard to try things if you're afraid of feeling worse if they don't help. But the beauty of ERP is that it's a gradual process, and you go at your own pace (ideally with the guidance of a specialist). For starters, you can try to respond to each of those questions with "maybe, maybe not" when they arise. See what it feels like to refuse to engage with them, even if you can only hold out for 30 seconds. What you may start to see is that the reason you're engaging with those thoughts in the first place is to avoid the uncomfortable feeling of anxiety they bring up. In that case, the key is not to answer the questions or get rid of the thoughts, but to learn that you can handle the anxiety. The only reason it feels like you can't is because by engaging with these thoughts, the anxiety gets worse and worse, to the point where it's overwhelming. Hope that's helpful.

@djflorio thanks for some perspective!

@djflorio That helped sm for the dpdr part I’ve been struggling hard with. :) thank youu

Not awful! Sometimes different approaches work better for people than others. ERP is probably the most direct and efficient approach, but it's not necessarily the only way. I think getting skilled in mindfulness in general is the ultimate goal in the long run. It's all about making friends with the present moment, and all of its imperfections. I personally find a lot of solace in Buddhism when it comes to that. Other people may find it in other ways.

You may find success in the "Four Steps" method developed by Jeffery Schwartz of UCLA. He teaches it in his book, "Brain Lock." Personally I would skip the book and just learn about the method (Relabel, Reattribute, Refocus, Revalue). The book lays out the neuroscience of OCD nicely, but there are WAY too many anecdotal OCD stories that just drag on and on. I also just have some fundamental philosophical differences with him (he's more Christian-based) and the way he interprets OCD itself (I'm not a fan of the "it's not me, it's my OCD" mantra), but I recognize those are my biases. He does lay out an approach that can be helpful for people who want an ERP alternative.

@djflorio I’ve tried erp for years it accomplished a whole lot of nothing just made me more restless and angry to the point of exhaustion never worked for me Medication therapy and Act have made progress faster with much less effort

@scutodragon I'm sorry you had that experience. Glad you've been making progress either way :)

@scutodragon May I ask what you are referring to when you wrote “act” helped you? My kiddo doesnt seem to benefit from ERP, I think it’s because she’s on the spectrum and becomes avoidant.

@Topinka ACT stands for "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy." It's a mindfulness-based therapeutic approach that focuses on accepting things as they are in the present moment. It's a wonderful approach to life in general.

Glad to hear you'll be trying ERP, and that you're getting better. I think most people stress about such thoughts from time to time. The difference is that they don't get TRAPPED in the thoughts. They are able to put the thoughts down and disregard them after a while, because they know there's no point in allowing those thoughts to bother them. On the other hand, if someone is trapped by the thoughts and feels like they have to DO SOMETHING to solve or get rid of the thought (as is the case with OCD), that's when the stress increases to the point of being overwhelmed. Again, it's not the thoughts that are the problem, it's the fact that we try to do something about them.

@djflorio Yes but our OCD thinks that common people should also think on this issue on high priority. Some times I believe that existence, death etc deserve to be pondered upon because these are most important topics of humanity

@Faisal116 - I agree that death should be pondered upon, as long as its done in a skillful way. I personally make it a habit to reflect on the impermanence of life and the reality of death each morning, as a Buddhist practice. But it's important to note that I'm at a place where I'm able to do that in a positive way, and not fall into anxiety or despair. It's used more as a motivator to do good things, as well as to let go of the trivial things that aren't worth our precious time. As far as the big existential "Why?" questions, I personally think those should be considered sparingly, and only when you're able to do so without getting lost in them. The reason being that "why" all this is happening doesn't change anything about our current situation. This is also something taught in Buddhism. Those questions aren't necessarily "bad" to think about, they're just largely unhelpful in the long run, because regardless of the "why," we are here, and there's nothing we can change about that. All we can do is lead peaceful, compassionate lives to the best of our ability.

@djflorio Thank you so much, it was helpful

"I wish I could go back to default settings" haha I love that. Yeah I can heavily relate to that feeling that you've seen or learned about something you "shouldn't have," and now life will never be the same. Like peering behind the curtain of the illusion that everyone else is living under. I can say from experience though, that it doesn't stay that way forever. Once you stop getting caught in this thought loop and learn to accept things as they come, life just kind of naturally settles back into "normalcy," even with the stuff that you can't "unlearn."

Yes those are few of the many topics that sent me down rabbit holes of research. I feel I've reached the point where I'm actually interested in pondering them once in a while, probably because I know when to call it quits. It's amazing how much more tolerable these questions become when you don't have the goal of, "I HAVE to figure this out!"

@djflorio Yes, I think I’m nearing that point! A few months ago I would literally wake up, look down at my hands and have a panic attack because I couldn’t comprehend my own existence

The advice I usually give for DPDR is to acknowledge it, allow it to happen, and don't try to force it away. Basically the same as any other uncomfortable mental state, like anxiety. I think the advice of focusing outward could be considered avoidance if the intention is to *get rid* of the DPDR feeling. Like forcing yourself to do grounding exercises to "snap out of it." On the other hand, focusing outward while acknowledging and accepting the feeling of DPDR, and to living your life DESPITE the DPDR, is good advice in my opinion. The ultimate goal is to not get caught up in the thoughts surrounding the DPDR, just like you don't want to get caught up in the thoughts around anxiety. The feelings themselves really aren't that painful, it's getting lost in the thoughts that really brings the suffering. At the end of the day DPDR is basically certain information-processing regions of the brain taking a break, as a way to cool itself down when it's overwhelmed. That's why it typically happens during stressful times in our life (I'm really sorry to hear about your roommate, that must have been extremely difficult). It's like a circuit breaker when a circuit becomes overloaded. As a result you feel somewhat distant and disconnected from the world, and things appear less familiar to you. This on its own isn't a problem. It's just the brain cooling off. The problem comes when we try to analyze this feeling: "Is this going to last forever?" "Why is this happening?" "Does this mean nothing is real?" "Am I real?" "How can I get rid of this feeling?" etc, etc. And so I would say the ERP approach in this situation is to respond to those thoughts with, "I dunno, maybe, maybe not," acknowledge that you're feeling the way you are, and then going about your business regardless. You can even lean into it and think of DPDR like a warm, cozy blanket that's been thrown over your head, like a thunder blanket for dogs 😂 With that attitude in mind, you then focus on the present moment, not as a way to avoid the feeling of DPDR, but as a way to prove that you don't have to engage with the scary thoughts that surround it. Unfortunately you can't DM on this app, but if you want to talk in more detail my instagram handle is in my profile if that's something you're comfortable with. Otherwise happy to discuss more here, and glad I can help!

If you're interested, I've collected my thoughts on DPDR here: https://app.treatmyocd.com/community/posts/2184717

I understand how you feel! This is a super common question and concern, so I've decided to collect my thoughts in one really long post: https://app.treatmyocd.com/community/posts/2184717 I hope you find something helpful in there. As for the concerns over medication, I'm not a doctor so I'm not in a place to say that you should or shouldn't be taking anything. All I can say is that if a therapist determines that medication would be helpful for you, try to respond to those intrusive thoughts with "maybe, maybe not." Turn towards the uncertainty with bravery.

@djflorio thank you so much, that’s actually quite helpful.

Oh yeah I've had similar thoughts before, and I know what you mean. There's almost a feeling of wanting to "escape" the confines of your body, like the idea that you can never experience anything other than what your own senses can pick up almost feels claustrophobic. I think that's another example of something that may be freaky at when you first start thinking about it, but over time it just sort of normalizes into your experience. Now I personally think that stuff is fascinating from a philosophical point of view, rather than scary. But you don't have to get to the point where you genuinely find it fascinating, you just have to get to the point where you don't fall down the rabbit hole of thoughts. In other words, when you have the thoughts like the ones you mentioned, the goal is to be able to respond with "yeah that's pretty weird," and then just move on. Accept and acknowledge the weirdness of it, and any uncomfortable feelings it brings. Over time you may find that it isn't those thoughts or the weird feelings you get that are causing most of the suffering, it's the resistance of it all. These things can be fun to ponder upon if you're in the right headspace for it, but if you find yourself trying to "solve" them because you feel freaked out, it's counter-productive. You'll just end up stuck in a cycle because you'll never get an answer you're satisfied with.

@djflorio Thank you for writing this - i appreciate it! When you started getting those thoughts that i mentioned above - did it really freak you out for awhile and how did you overcome it? For some reason i just can’t seem to get over the feeling weird about looking through my eyes thing and feeling the need to escape my own body and its making me real anxious /:

@Dreamydream - Honestly I can't remember any specific timeline. It's not so much that I had one major episode of these thoughts in particular, and then I got over them, but more that I remember these thoughts being bothersome to me in the past. It would kind of come and go. I've noticed these types of things bothering me less and less the more I practice things like mindfulness and meditation. There's a common thread between pretty much all therapeutic approaches for anxiety/OCD, which is that the thoughts and feelings aren't as much of a problem as our reaction to them is. The more you resist them or try to push them away, the more anxious you become. That's where mindfulness comes in, and that's why it comes up so often when talking about mental health. Right now it probably feels like you need to "solve" these thoughts about "looking through your own eyes," and/or "get rid" of this weird feeling you're having. In other words, you're resisting these thoughts and feelings and you want them to go away. That's totally understandable, and that's how most people would handle this situation. But mindfulness takes a different approach. Rather than avoiding or solving, you allow these things to be there and notice the effect they have on you, even if its uncomfortable. It takes practice, but this is a skill that you hone over time, and you'll eventually see that when you don't resist, these thoughts and feelings come and go on their own. Eventually you will realize that you can handle the physical feelings of wanting to "escape" your body, which will make that sensation less scary in the first place. Aside from practicing mindfulness, you can work on redirection. When these thoughts/feelings come up, acknowledge them and then purposefully redirect your attention to something else. Think about what you want for lunch, notice what the weather is like, get some work done, do a puzzle, go for a run, play an instrument, watch a show...whatever is available to you in the moment. The goal is to continue living your life even while these things are present. That's the difference between redirection and avoidance. You aren't avoiding these thoughts/feelings in hopes that they go away, you're living life *despite* them. Of course, if things get to the point where you simply can't function, I would highly recommend speaking to a professional therapist. Especially if they have experience with methods like ERP, or mindfulness-based practice in general.