For some reason ever since I’ve gotten POCD my brain is telling me there’s nothing wrong with pedophilia, it’s like I have sympathy for them when I use despise them and found them weird, and when I think about the thought it makes my brain feel weird...I hate ocd :/

exactly right, it's just not socially acceptable to have compassion towards such a group. It just still leads to a lot of anxiety about whether you'll be lumped into that group just for feeling bad for them. A catch-22 situation for sure.

I agree with this, but my brain is telling me it’s alright that this group of people act on it but deep down I know it’s not okay. My brain is just so weird, when I say I would never want a kid to be hurt my brain is saying “no pedophilia is fine even when they act on it” I hate this feeling ::

@sunnysideup Not socially acceptable except among compassionate people. I decided quite a while ago that they're the ones whose opinions I care about. They do tend to be on the right side of history, and compassion is honestly a good thing to stand up for even if you get judged about it, nobody ever really thinks they could end up on the recieving end of social stigma, so they dish it out like crazy and that's a very dark element of human nature. People would be much kinder if they ever thought they'd actually be treated how they treat others. It's almost like people think that if you dare to have compassion, it means you'll be fine with anything, when actually it means that you care about human value and accountability and second chances and putting things right, than about retribution. For example, there is the Nordic model for prisons (therapy, education and a focus on genuinely making up for the crime and prevention) which treats people like they're worth a damn, and the American model (rot here and then good luck turning your life around instead of reoffending when you get out, I promise you won't get hired) which dehumanises. Some parts of cancel culture do the same thing where people are cancelled for one mistake (e.g. did blackface as a teen or had a period of being toxic), apologies and clear demonstrations of changed behaviour aren't taken worth a damn, and that's not justice, social or otherwise. People are human, they grow. Retribution does not heal *anyone*, forgiveness heals both wounds and bonds between us and it comes from within, not from exacting your revenge, and moves us all forwards to grow and do better. This shit is going to carry on until people start to get that. Can you imagine how many fewer crimes against children would happen if pedophiles were actually given social support, counselling etc? I've 100% felt the same nervous way as you about this, but I'll take the anxiety of being on the side of the socially unpalatable people who didn't choose that life for themselves. I don't even know who I'd be if I didn't value compassion for innocent people who are shamed and bullied over how much I value fitting in myself. I can't think of anything I wouldn't sacrifice for that principle. If it makes people judge and dislike or fear me out of ignorance or social conditioning, even people on this forum, then so be it honestly.

@noone800 so sorry you're struggling with this. OCD brain is so slippery to deal with.

@noone800 Oh, that thought that it's fine to act on it sounds like an intrusive thought if your brain is shoving it at you and suggesting that you believe it, but you consciously reject it and you don't try to make excuses for it. I had a friend who thought that it should be legalised to some degree since when he was a child he had sexual feelings for adults and reckons that he would have liked to be able to act on them, would have consented and it wouldn't have traumatised him. But he ultimately changed his mind due to the fact that for many children, it would, and that opening the door to those relationships happening at all opens a door to coercive ones which don't get spotted. I was having sex at 15 and in retrospect it was far too young for me, I think a lot of people feel that way, and people are less likely to be emotionally mature, the younger they are, and especially before puberty, so it makes a lot of sense to have a hard limit. I mean, it's 18 in the USA I think but 16 in the UK and 15 in Sweden.

@Scoggy This is such a beautiful message. I really love what you're saying here and it's actually very comforting to know there are people who think like you. I've struggled with black and white thinking all my life and I've been working towards getting more comfortable with the grey. I want to be more unapologetically compassionate, but I'm still at the point in my life where I want everyone to like me. You've deeply inspired me, however, to find the courage to be who I want to be. Thank you, really.

@Scoggy Yeah it probably is, like I keep telling myself it’s bad but my brain is like “it’s fine, pedophilia is fine” and it scares me because I never use to think like this

@sunnysideup Hey don't let me convince you it's easy. Bravery takes a lot of practice, I've been judged and it sucks. Reading stoic philosophy helps a LOT. But you can't make everyone like you anyway, and if you care too much about the crowd you just become like whatever they're like and honestly I think that can be just as dangerous as thinking for yourself. For example, call me a nutjob and everything but I'm signing up for cryonics (funded via life insurance)- because it makes sense. At some point in the future they're going to be able to either get my brain defrosted and working again or make an exact copy of it down to the moleculome when there's a cure for whatever killed me. It doesn't matter when in the future that is. They've already been able to use current techniques to chill and defrost a rabbit brain with zero damage, even the neurons were in the exact same places so the entire personality, memory etc were preserved, they just couldn't get blood flowing again because the cryopreservant was toxic. People think of it as pie in the sky sci fi, as that's what it used to be, but assuming we don't all get blown up anyway, technology IS going to get there even if it's not for 100+ years. I'd take even a small chance at eventually being revived to good health over a guarantee of being dead forever with no say in it. I get judged when I talk about it, people look at me funny, people don't understand me. If I do the socially acceptable thing automatically without questioning it, I sacrifice the ability to make and take responsibility for my own decisions, and sometimes the stakes are absolutely massive, like being able to look back on your life and be proud of yourself for sticking to your principles, or being alive rather than very dead. I highly recommend it. And don't worry, compassionate people are definitely out there, they're usually people who have suffered and grown from it. I also don't think it helps to judge people who aren't, because that reduces and underestimates them too, I'm confident everyone has that capacity within them, they just need to feel safe enough to let it out. We can encourage people to feel safe like that by being compassionate and fair ourselves- a little goes a long way. A few years ago when I learned to practice compassion, I was able to change my family's ingrained patterns of digs and defensiveness, which ultimately came down to a lack of trust, by being vulnerable and compassionate myself so that they felt safe enough to be vulnerable too. I think they've taken that into other parts of their lives too and it made it easier for them to be compassionate towards themselves. Anybody can change the world, you definitely can.

@sunnysideup Plus, this way it doesn't matter which of my fears come true or what is taken away from me, as long as I'm alive nobody can take away my capacity for compassion, and compassion seriously changes people, and yeah eventually the world. It made my whole personality do a 180. You could lock me up in a North Korean prison camp and it would still be an opportunity to show love and kindness and forgiveness and solidarity, and for people to learn from it to be the same. It starts to genuinely feel more important than being liked, or even being safe.

@Scoggy It's a beautiful practice. And I have read a little stoic philosophy it was just a little dry for me haha. Thanks so much for your insight, it really helps.

@Scoggy Do you have any tips for me to change my view on this topic? Or do you think it would be best if I accept uncertainty?

@sunnysideup Something light could help, maybe just Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, it's a small, concise book? Or even YouTube videos. I also recommend Siddhartha by Herman Hesse btw. In 'letters to Lucilius' there was stoic advice about deliberately eating only small amounts of crappy food, wearing uncomfortable clothing and putting yourself in situations to be socially judged, so that you can survive it and realise that you can survive anything but death and still have your principles and still have value to give and make the world better. It's something I plan on doing tbh- I already wear clothes which people judge, I don't try to act like everyone else and I've gotten very used to people being hesitant to be my friend at first. I'm planning on doing the clothes and food things, plus gradually starting a regimen of keeping to a strict schedule, restricting my own internet access and no-space, no-equipment exercise. It's not just suffering for its own sake, I'm more trying to put myself in situations where I could suffer and choosing to let go of what I can't control, accept the situation, adapt to it and so not suffer. I've found building up my belief in my own resilience EXTREMELY helpful with both OCD in terms of coping with the unknown/my brain's helpful suggestions of lurking threats, and sticking to my principles.

@noone800 Well, I can definitely understand that it's upsetting you that your brain keeps on and on with suggesting this. The unfortunate thing with OCD is that mulling it over and hating it and arguing with it and questioning yourself all pretty much tend to make it worse because it gives a lot of emotional energy to the random thought. The idea of accepting uncertainty is pretty vague honestly, I think in this case acceptance has to mean accepting that you can't know for sure whether you're a good person or a danger no matter how much you dwell on the possibility. The best thing you can do in actions is to not give any attention to it at all when the topic pops up. Not avoiding triggers/reminders of the topic, just instead literally forcefully directing your attention to other things any time the thought comes and you feel that urge to delve into it. It feels super negligent and scary, but only at first. Eventually it gets better because you realise nothing bad happened. You'll always have control over your choices, you won't do something bad without deciding to do it, and your decisions do NOT NEED the influence of OCD or even anxiety in order to be good decisions. Just like you don't need to be reminded every day that it's bad to murder people in order to not murder people who annoy you- you don't murder because you know it's a bad thing to do and also has bad consequences for everyone. Anxiety isn't what stops people from doing bad things, it always comes down to our values and other parts of human nature.

@Scoggy Wow this was put so amazing! At the end of the day I will truly never know if I agree with pedophilia because my ocd won’t let me know, when I tell myself I believe in it, it tells me I don’t, when I tell myself I don’t believe in it, it tells me I do. I must accept uncertainty and change my mind when I get this thought and just accept the anxiety I get when I think of this! Thank you!

@noone800 You don't need to change your mind when you get the thought, it's not even advisable to disagree with it- you need to let it be an open question: "maybe I agree with it and maybe I don't, I can't find out via obsessing" and think about other things instead. Over time it feels like a much less important question. You can't have certainty, but you don't need it.

@Scoggy Thank you so much! When I say that to myself it feels like my head tells me “I do agree with it thought” but I will continue saying in my head and out loud and see what happens!

OMG YES!

Yeah I know how you feel, my brain is telling me to feel bad for the ones that hurt people and I’m like wth