Breathing OCD Hello I'm getting better at allowing the awareness but been concerned if I workout or do something strenuous that I will have a hard time letting go. Any advice.

@outdoorman @outdoorman thank you so much. I needed this. Praise God you replied! I’m so glad to have found your thread. I have read Mark Freeman’s book actually as well and loved the concepts sometimes just had trouble applying. Praising Jesus rn🙌🏻 lol thank you

So I’ve been through this and I’ve noticed it’s extremely helpful to not put the compulsions in charge of your life. What do I mean by that? I don’t categorize OCD at all anymore. Weather it’s Somatic OCD, Harm OCD, Relationship OCD, Depersonalization etc. It is 100% all the same. You are not actually worried about your breath. You’re not worried about noticing your breath for the rest of your life etc. you may think that in the moment of anxiety. But it’s not actually what’s going on in your brain. Your brain had a thought- and now it’s just trying to get you to perform a compulsion to make you feel better. And that’s it. The topic can be about ANYTHING.. So my road to recovery is simply not judging the compulsions. I don’t say a compulsion is good or bad. I just prefer not to do them, because I know it’s a waste of time and I rather do things that I value in life. So for example when I’m working out and my brain throws up a random thought like- “My heart is racing and my breath is shallow, am I going to have a heart attack or notice these sensations for the rest of my life?” There’s 2 tricks that I learned- 1st is just do the worst case scenario and say “yep I’m going to have a heart attack right here in the gym and become disabled, lose my job, my friends and end up alone forever until I die” 2nd trick is simply not answering the question my brain just threw up. In both tricks, I didn’t judge. I just let my brain do it’s thing, then go back to working out. Because working out makes me healthy and I value health. Hopefully this makes sense, you can ask more questions. To put it simple- don’t think of compulsions as good or bad things. Just ask yourself if that’s something you want to do the rest of your life, or do you want to build, create and live by your values.

@outdoorman Wow Thank you so much for answering me so thoroughly. I truly appreciate it and it helps. I will work out tomorrow. The image that comes into my head is me controlling my breath if I over exert because it happened once when I had an anxiety attack. However I was not working out. I also had no idea about ocd or why I was locking into my breathing. This happened 4 weeks ago. Thank you again. I will brave it. I need to live my life.

You’re welcome. You can ask as many questions as you would like. I just have this App so I can give back and help others. Another slice of advice I have for you is- I found it extremely helpful in recovery to dig up my root fear. My root fear is/was death. I’m becoming more friendly with it now since I’m far along recovery, but years ago- it was my ultimate fear. So my question for you is- What is your fear with the breathing OCD? That you will notice it for the rest of your life? Or you might not be breathing correctly and pass out? Etc.

@outdoorman Very new to OCD and treatment but I find your posts inspiring. How did you overcome (or minimize) your fear of death?

@JEH3 Hey! Simply put- I no longer put my all my time and energy focusing on things that are out of my control, or anything that includes something that I can not build or share with others. So for example- I only come onto this App to help others and share my recovery experiences, vs. coming onto this App and seeking reassurance. I’m seeking to build relationships and give something vs. destroying and taking. I use the same principle when it comes to death. I don’t spend my time and energy around performing compulsions around death anymore. I would constantly check, cope or try to control certain aspects to stay out of harms way and expand my longevity. I would try certain diets and exercises that were meant to expand life. But now I eat healthy foods and exercise to give my body energy to fuel my every day tasks of giving and building things in my community. It basically boils down to accepting that death is inevitable, and choosing to spend my time on my values and things that matter most to me. 😊

@outdoorman Thank you for sharing. And thanks for the details. I’m going to try and adopt this approach. How I’m living now with cardiophobia resulting in death is no way to live or have my loved ones live with me.

@JEH3 Been there! I’ve had any OCD “theme” you could possibly think of. I use to avoid strenuous activity in fear of a heart attack. I use to avoid going to the doctor because my blood pressure would sky rocket from my anxiety. I one time had a nurse tell me I was going to have a stroke at 28 because my blood pressure was dangerously high, which is a great thing to tell someone when they’re anxious! 😆 So in return, I began performing all sorts of compulsions around those sensations and thoughts I didn’t like. I bought a blood pressure monitor, I avoided the doctor like the plague, and I only walked and did yoga for physical exercise, nothing too strenuous to hurt my heart. After learning how OCD works, I then took a step back and thought about what I wanted to accomplish in life and what my values were. I value being strong so I can perform tasks like landscaping, so I turned to lifting heavy weights to become stronger. I set a goal of running a half marathon, so I began to run long distances. I ditched the blood pressure monitor, because I was using it as a “checking” compulsion and I decided to trust my healthy habits. Now I go to the doctor for yearly checkups, because I value my health, even if I’m anxious.

@outdoorman This is very helpful. It’s tough living with the chest discomfort even after being checked out and reassured by the Drs. My mind says that yes, you were fine then but maybe now it’s real. Does that make sense?

@outdoorman How would you know when you need real emergency care vs the OCD talking and telling you to get help? I’m having a hard time distinguishing between what is real (physically) and what is real (OCD wise). Am I making sense? I feel like I’m talking a foreign language at times.

@JEH3 I get what you’re saying, trust me! In your first comment, you mentioned that you have been checked out by docs and everything is good. You already received your reassurance. You’re stuck in this OCD cycle because your brain wants you to perform compulsions. One important thing to remember is this- OCD doesn’t care about the feelings you get. It doesn’t care about your thoughts, and it doesn’t care about the sensations you get in your chest. OCD only wants the compulsion. That’s all it is after, and your brain will “fabricate” any sensation in your chest to get you to perform a compulsion, such as checking. You want to check to see if your discomfort is life threatening, and I assure you, your OCD is feeding off that compulsion. It works the same way with anything. I can tell you to not think of pink elephants or you will die. What ends up happening? You automatically think of pink elephants, then you get very anxious. Your brain knows you don’t like pink elephants, so we must quickly perform a compulsion like avoiding the thought, then checking to make sure that thought is gone! You’re still anxious about your chest discomfort. Your brain knows this, and now it is being extremely helpful to you. It’s trying to get you to perform a compulsion to rid the sensation. Then once you perform the compulsion of checking, controlling or coping (for example going to the doctors and seeking reassurance from others), you will be at a calm state, and the brain feels like it has done its job! But in reality, you just have your signals mixed up. It’s not your brains fault for performing the compulsions, it is US who perform the compulsions. OCD is something WE do. It has nothing to do with our brains. Our brains just love us and want to protect us. The next time you perform a compulsion, my advice would be to be perfectly ok with that. BUT, tell yourself next time you are about to go online and search chest discomfort or think about going to the doctor to get checked out again, how about doing something you value instead? Maybe playing with your pet if you have one? Volunteering your time, spending time with loved ones, treating yourself to a movie? Anything that you value. As time passes, you won’t be focused on the chest discomfort and like magic, your brain doesn’t see that as a threat any longer. A common question I always get is- “But isn’t that avoiding my chest discomfort?? Isn’t avoiding a compulsion??” Avoiding is a compulsion, but you aligning your values is not avoidance. You’re simply accepting your discomfort and making the decision to act by your values. Acceptance is the practice of doing nothing at all. It’s the same practice of stepping outside and accepting the clouds in the sky. You did nothing to accept those clouds, they are just present in your everyday life! Hope this all makes sense!

@outdoorman It does make sense. I need to figure out how to print this message and post it in places around my house. I can’t thank you enough. I’m on the road to recovery and you’ve made a big difference. I might have other questions or comments in the future but I hope I haven’t been too much of a pain in your side.

@JEH3 You haven’t been a pain at all! I’m living, breathing proof that OCD is just a silly thing we do, and eventually your brain understands that compulsions aren’t something you value, then it moves on to what’s important in your life. It may jump around themes as well, which is completely natural for a brain to look for something else to keep you out of harms way. I like to treat my brain as my little child. It loves me and what’s to protect me, but because I haven’t done the best job showing it what’s important to me, my brain is naturally going to be confused on what it should be focusing on! It’s all about the journey, and you need to enjoy that journey! I’ll be here if you need me 😊

@outdoorman My physical sensations are morphing. For example, this morning I started to feel tingles or shivers all over. Then I panicked. My brain went into overdrive and I’m (almost) positive it’s my OCD. Is this normal? How did you (if this happened to you) deal with a change in physical sensations? I feel absolutely alone this morning and that this battle is going to get the best of me in the end. Like all I’m doing is delaying the inevitable. I’ve only been up for 1.5 hours and it’s kicking me in the teeth.

@JEH3 Sounds like OCD morphing your symptoms to me. Happened to me all the time! OCD will change themes and come up with all sorts of sensations or even feelings you never experienced before, just to get you to perform compulsions to feel better. You’ll notice this throughout your journey of recovery. At times your brain is going to feel like it’s screaming at you to pay attention to your thoughts, feelings and sensations. That’s when you say- “Thanks brain, thanks for always looking out for me. I’ll take note, but now I’m going to go back to my values and do what’s important to me while having these thoughts, feelings and sensations going on. Quick disclaimer/advice- If you’re taking meditation for anxiety or taking medication for anything else, this may be a side effect or something you could ask your doc too. I took a SSRI for a short few months in the beginning, and had wicked side effects tapering off of them. I just wasted educated at the time. But if meds check out- then yes, it’s just OCD 😊

@outdoorman - Just want to say thank you so much again for sharing these. I actually saved your notes on some of these and the ones you replied to me and they've helped me so much, I've even been able to use what you have shared to help some other people. I think you should write a book! Thanks again, God bless you :)

@Anxietyandjoy No problem! And thanks for the kind words! Keep coming back to share your wins. I love hearing about people living their lives, no matter what’s going on in their heads. 😊

@Anxietyandjoy Thank you! I’ve actually read you are not a rock as well. And I shared some of your quotes with friends who had similar themes on another group. 🙌🏻

@Anxietyandjoy “You are not a rock” is a great read! Mark Freeman is the man! All the advice he’s given the OCD community is invaluable. He’s one of the reasons why I try to help anyone struggling with mental health. One day I’ll write a book as good as that one 😊

How are you. Again thanks so much for all the information and support. I have given your username to Nocd team. I hope they tap you to help others.

You’ll get there. Recovery from OCD is all about stepping off of the battlefield. You don’t have to fight anymore.

@outdoorman Hi. How are you? I'm wondering if I'm keeping this alive or the ocd is. I had one day where I thought I was cured and didn't think about it for hours. So now I'm wondering if I have something other than ocd

@outdoorman Hi! So good news. My brain has let go but I keep directing attention as if checking or traumatized. Then start thinking what if I have to go to dentist. What if I forget for several days and then get surprised. Lord. Thanks and hope you are well.

@Rose Hey Rose! I’m doing well. Hope you’re doing well! It’s good to hear that your brain has let go. My advice when you say you “keep directing attention as if checking” notice that’s a compulsion. When you check, cope or control, those are compulsions. Remember, that compulsions aren’t anything bad, because that just throws us into a judging cycle, where our brain just wants to judge everything. But just remind yourself- I rather not do compulsions, because it’s not something I value and want to spend my time on. With that being said- If you have a thought about forgetting about your dentist appointment, simply right down the date on your calendar or put a reminder in your phone. This puts the thought down, so it’s out of your mind and there’s no need to ruminate about it. It’s just like keeping a journal. I always recommend to keep a journal and put your thoughts down on paper so you can physically see it and then move on to things that you value! Reminder- if you’re “thinking a lot” you’re probably ruminating, which is something you don’t value, right? 😊

@outdoorman Thank you. My thought around dentists is avoiding the breathing obsession lol. I will try your advice on compulsions. As soon as I think about it my attention goes to breathing. Thank you again.

@Rose If your attention goes towards breathing, that’s perfectly ok! That’s like the common cliché of “Don’t think of pink elephants” what happens? You think of a pink elephants. It’s the judgement, I think is where we get things confused and stay in OCD cycles. We judge that focusing on our breathing is a “bad” thing. We judge anxiety as a “bad” thing. When in reality, they are just experience’s and it’s ok to have any feeling or experience and continue to do the things that matter to us!

@outdoorman Ok thank you. I appreciate it. Going through this and a divorce. Doing my best to stay strong 💪 thanks again so much.

@Rose You got this! You are strong!

@outdoorman I guess moping around and sleeping all day is not gonna help. Thank you.

@Rose Experiencing similar things, wondering how you’re doing now

A challenge that we often run into is- we put all of our time and energy into fighting anxiety, beating depression, trying to solve intrusive thoughts and sensations. But what happens is, we just keep putting those things in charge of our lives. I’m going to put all of my time and energy into fixing this stuff and then I’m going to move onto living my life. But in reality- that is the problem. We’re reacting to all the stuff in our heads and then putting our lives on hold. So what helps in getting over mental illness, is shifting the focus to building better mental health. So I’ll give you a musical metaphor that helped me understand this concept better. When we’re struggling with mental illness we are playing 1 musical instrument. When we’re building better mental health we are playing a different instrument. It’s realizing that the old musical instrument (which is anxiety, depression etc) there’s nothing wrong with it. We just recognize that it’s creating music that we don’t want to share with people. We recognize there is other music we want to create and share with people, but we don’t quite know how to do that just yet. So let’s say the 1st instrument I learned was flute. I just “fell into it” kinda like how we fall into doing compulsions. I didn’t know any other instrument, just like I didn’t know that I didn’t have to react to every emotion and thought that came to my head. Now I’m not saying there is anything wrong with playing the flute, it’s just not the instrument I’ve always wanted to play- like I said I just “fell into it” other friends we’re playing it and I didn’t know there was other music instruments to learn. It’s the same as any feeling or thought- there’s nothing wrong with having those, we just are quick to judging and labeling those. So I go to a musical teacher and tell them I want to learn how to play guitar instead. I feel like I can share more with the world if I knew how to play guitar and I can create better music with it. Do I tell the teacher- “Hey teach me how to forget how to play the flute!!” No of course not. What does that solve? How does that help you? It doesn’t. The same goes for if you visit a therapist and tell them- “Hey, teach me how to get rid of anxiety and depression!!” A good therapist will tell you I can never show you how to get rid of anxiety and depression because it’s a part of you. It’s a natural feeling. Just like that musical teacher will tell you, I can’t UNTEACH you an instrument. Instead, let’s practice on learning a new instrument, something you enjoy and want to create with. Same goes for a therapist, they will show you how to have any emotion or thought or sensation and continue to build better mental health. There is no getting rid of anxiety and depression. Put your focus on building mental health skills while having anxiety and depression.

You’re welcome! This is why this community is here! New skills take practice. Consider this like running a marathon. You don’t just get off the couch without any running experience and expect to run 26.2 miles. You build up to it, little by little.

The tips that I have given you, have all helped me in my journey to recovery. Use post it notes, they are helping your brain understand that it is not in charge. Your brain just cares about the compulsions, nothing else. You can literally have any thought, doesn’t matter what it is. Another tip is- step off the battlefield. There is no battle in your brain. The more you try to “fix” this breathing OCD the more powerful it gets. Meditate can be your new exercise. Sit in a chair or on the floor and commit to not moving for 10 mins. No matter how uncomfortable you may get, try not to move. Your brain will start to throw up thoughts about anything. And that’s fine! Just keep sitting without moving. That’s what meditation is all about. Accepting whatever is going on in your head and not reacting to it. You’re simply sitting, not judging or reacting and just “being”

@outdoorman Hi there. How are you. I hope you don't mind me reaching out. This is my 8th month with sensorimotor ocd and while I have seen improvements in that im not stuck paying attention to the in and out of my breathing, it is moving around. I am always nervous, and when the breathing ocd does come into my awareness I get jumpy and my heart palpitations including during meditation. Is this normal or is it time to check myself in?

@Rose Hey there! So what I found incredibly useful is- anything to do with sensorimotor symptoms I discovered was me doing a list of compulsions. Mainly, checking and controlling. When you say “this is my 8th month with sensorimotor” or “I have seen improvements” “it’s moving around” these are all checking compulsions. You’re checking to see how you “feel today or this week or this month” I use to wake up every morning and check to see how I was feeling. I would check to see if I was anxious or motivated to get out of bed. Or if I noticed my breathing or heartbeat. Maybe I shouldn’t lift weights or excercise today? Maybe that will cause my heart to beat way too fast and have a stroke or heart attack? I was checking my heart beats to see if they were abnormal. I was checking my breath to make sure I wouldn’t forget to breath. Checking is a compulsion. You’re checking to see if your “normal” which in turn you will never feel normal. Your brain will simply move to the next uncertainty it throws up. And that is exactly what your brain is doing when you said it will move around. The more you check and control what your brain throws up. The more you experience it. Your brain is a big uncertainty monitor. Everyone’s brain is! The difference between you and “normal” people is the “normal” ones simply have a thought. Like- “Is my heart beating to hard or fast? Or am I even actually breathing?” They simply don’t answer the question. They may have anxiety from that thought but they don’t react to it. They don’t spend all day and night judging and ruminating and checking to see if their heart is beating correctly or breathing correctly. It’s not what they value and not what they want to spend their time on.

@Rose So my exercise for you- when a thought comes to you. Don’t answer the question and do something you value. If you’re sitting, then sit with the thought! That thought can be there and you don’t have to “check” to see if you feel normal. If your heart is beating fast, fine! If you’re breath is shallow and fast- fine! Those thoughts and sensations can be there. This practice can take effect anywhere, anytime, doing whatever. Doesn’t matter if you’re meditating, driving, cooking etc. because you can’t control thoughts! But you can control reactions!

@outdoorman Thank you so much. This makes sense. I will try. I find i am very vigilant all day as if afraid to let go. What do I do when I notice my breathing and my heart skips? Sorry if I missed this answer. Like that sensation has me on guard. Ty so much. Truly I feel like I'm losing it. Finally got to point where I'm not stuck on the in and out so my brain throws up getting started with a physical response. Ugh. Tbank you!!!

@outdoorman One more. Is ocd emotional, neurological, or what. Do you know? So many different theories

@Rose A lot of theories, you’re right. This may be from way left field. But my teacher expressed to me- that OCD is just actions and reactions. There’s nothing wrong neurologically or emotionally. Emotions are a part of life. Feelings are perfectly normal. It’s our actions is what’s causing OCD. We perform compulsions which in turn makes us feel better short term but gives us more anxiety long term. We just have it mixed up. We think we are our thoughts and they dictate real life and who we are. But that’s simply not true. That’s called cognitive diffusion, when you believe you are your thoughts. Thoughts are like farts. They mean absolutely nothing. When you fart, it’s just natural digestion. You didn’t judge or analyze the fart. The same should go for thoughts. It’s a thing your brain does. It’s natural. How we get OCD is by performing compulsions around those thoughts, because we think they are important somehow.

@outdoorman Wow makes sense. My ocd started with pocd. Looking back i made it worse which primed me for breathing ocd. With the sensorimotor ovd I find it's harder to detect compulsions. Thank you. Very grateful 🙏

@outdoorman Aha. I get it. Now to try and actually not ruminate or do compulsions. Lord this is really challenging my courage.

@Rose Or think about this all day. What a privilege it was not to notice that you noticed. Thank you again.

@Rose It’s challenging indeed! But that’s ok! And may I suggest to make recovery easy! Step off the battlefield. There is no battle. Whatever thought you have and feeling and sensation that came after it- it already happened. There’s no changing or fixing it. That’s what an anxiety disorder is all about it. We have thoughts, feelings and sensations we don’t like- then we perform compulsions to get rid of the feeling, thought or sensation. When in reality we’re supposed to just accept and do the things we value. You probably don’t do anything about the thoughts, feelings and sensations you encounter during the day that are GOOD right? But you do compulsions when you encounter feelings, thoughts and sensations you don’t like.

@outdoorman Yes I see what your saying. Im really trying to think of that way. I will try harder. The fear and discomfort feels so real when I don't breathe right or get startled. I worry that I will get better out my guard down and notice and have a panic attack. As I write this I realize how ridiculous it is. I must do as you say tough I find myself with s u I c I d e ideation but I wish to live. Thsnks again.

@outdoorman Sounds like you had a great thrrapist/teacher. Are they still practicing? I need a new therapist. Lol 😆

@Rose I haven’t seen my therapist in 2 years. He did great by showing me ERP exercises. But now my teacher is Mark Freeman. You can find him on YouTube. He is by far the most educated on mental health disorders, not just OCD!

@outdoorman Ok thanks

I absolutely understand. I’m not trying to force urgency upon you either. Mental fitness takes time just like physical fitness! I don’t want you to make the same mistakes I did- like putting all of my focus and attention towards a random thought or emotion. Because those will always come and go, no matter what is going on in your life. Remember to make a list of your values- Friendship, Career, Health to just name a few. And do your best to do those things and feel however. If looking at a puppy or kitten makes you happy, do you avoid being happy? Probably not. If you see an attractive person and that makes you aroused, do you avoid the feeling of arousal? Probably not. If someone cuts you off in traffic and almost causes a wreck, do you avoid getting mad? Probably not. There should be no difference when it comes to anxiety. It’s a natural feeling like any other feeling we experience. What causes us to have an anxiety disorder is- we judge the thought, feeling or sensation as a bad thing, therefore we perform compulsions to get rid of it. Therefore we get caught up in the OCD cycle. Just practice living your life and experience whatever comes your way.

It will help. Just a reminder to keep putting in the practice. Acceptance without judgement, use post it notes, do things you value. Medication is a great tool and it will help you in your recovery, but it’s never the fix all.

@Anonymous Sure! So when you’re having a feeling or a thought of “shortness of breath” I can probably bet a lot of money you’re not actually short of breath. You may have the thought that you’re short of breath, but you’re most likely not. I had this obsession for awhile. I thought I was barely getting any oxygen, so I went out and bought a device that measured my oxygen intake. (If you have read this thread, I’ve had pretty much any obsession and have performed any compulsion you can think of) I would measure my oxygen intake at least once a day, I would consistently check to see if I was breathing deep enough, consistently ask others if I was breathing normal, avoid exercising because it would raise my heart rate and increase my breathing, which I thought was way to shallow to begin with! As you can see, I was performing many compulsions around that thought/feeling I was having. Now, I’m not saying that anxiety doesn’t make you feel like you’re short or breath and yes it feels like you’re short of breath, but in reality, you’re anxious so your breathing becomes shallow, so it just FEELS like you’re short of breath. Take note something very important here- You can have this feeling! Give yourself permission to have this feeling! So, how do I get over this? Is the question everyone wants to know. How did I go from obsessing and performing compulsions for 12 years to living my best life? I gave in… I finally said- “I don’t care if I notice a bodily function, hurt someone, hurt myself, hurt someone in the past, end up poor, end up in a hospital, or end up dead. It’s time for me to accept how I feel, accept my thoughts and accept my sensations without judging or performing compulsions. Period. My main component was finding out, that I can have anxiety. It is ok to have anxiety. I never knew you should have anxiety? Isn’t anxiety bad!? I changed my relationship with anxiety. I want to have anxiety. Just like I want to experience happiness. I want to experience sadness. I want to experience arousal. These are all feelings, so what’s wrong with having anxiety? Once you change your relationship with anxiety, you’ll start to change your behavior around random thoughts. Thoughts do not define who you are. Thoughts are something your brain just does. Your brain is just one big uncertainty barometer that is there to keep you out of danger. Your brain knows you don’t like anxiety, because you have labeled it as something “bad” so naturally it will come up with ways to remove that- aka compulsions. ERP helped me with cutting out physical compulsions, like checking if I turned off the stove before I left for work etc. ERP is the gold standard when it comes to lots of physical compulsions you have. But, I found ACT to be more effective when I needed to cut out my mental compulsions. So what this looks like is- You have a thought about your breath being short. It feels shallow. So notice, you had that thought. There’s nothing you can do about that thought. You already had it.. it just happened, so don’t ruminate and analyze that thought anymore, there’s no need to. Now you had the “feeling of shortness, maybe heart starts beating faster” notice those sensations. You can’t do anything about those sensations. They already happened. You don’t have to ruminate on it, keep checking to see if breathing is coming back to normal etc… it already happened. Don’t be a time traveler and live in the past. Accept it. You accept things by doing nothing. How do you accept the clouds in the sky? You don’t do anything to them.. that’s exactly what you do here. You don’t have to do anything with your thoughts, feelings and sensations. Trust your body and your values. These 2 things will NEVER steer you wrong. Your body knows when to breath, blink, swallow, heart beat etc. it knows how to function. It doesn’t need you to keep controlling, checking and coping with it! Your values are things that are close to you and what you want to obtain. Health, relationships, financial security etc. keep focusing on things you value and use it as a compass. You can have any thought, feeling or sensation and continue doing what you value. These steps are the way to recovery 😊

@outdoorman Thank you so much this was so helpful. So when I am physically feeling short of breath and it feels real like my lungs are not filling up all the way I just do nothing? And keep moving on with my values? Did it ever feel like you were going to have an asthma attack? I know it’s ocd but it can feel so real and in the moment I feel like I must keep breathing harder. And the frustration that I can’t get a full breath.

This is extremely common. And that is a checking compulsion. A compulsion is anything you do to check on, control or cope with. So when you are noticing that you are noticing- that’s checking to see if the anxiety is still there. Remember you actually aren’t worried about anything. Your brain just wants you to perform the compulsion. Your brain just cares about the compulsion, not the obsession. So it comes down to judging again. When you are noticing that you are noticing- did you judge that as bad? If so, then you’ll just keep doing it. If you perform a compulsion then so what? You performed a compulsion, that’s not a good thing or a bad thing. Just move on with your morning. What helped tremendously was making sticky notes. Make them very simple. Put a sticky note right by your bedside in the morning. “I am going to get out of bed” Make another that says “Now I’m going to brush my teeth” Put another sticky note in the bathroom that says “Now I’m going to go out to the kitchen to make breakfast” Making very simple sticky notes teaches your brain that you can feel however you want and your brain can throw anything at you- but I will continue to do what I value. That is what is important to me. You are literally re-wiring your brain, so it takes practice and patience, just like any skill.

I only took medication for a month. I suffered from OCD for over a decade. I found medication to be a great tool by “lowering the volume” while I did exposures. But emphasis on “tool” it doesn’t cure you from anything. Just like how running shoes are a great tool to use when running, but the shoes don’t make you run the miles- you put in that work. If your goal is to get rid of anxiety by taking medication- then that is something you will not achieve 100% of the time. Anxiety is a natural feeling, just like any feeling we experience. Do you do anything to get rid of happiness? Do you do anything to get rid of calmness? Nope. So why would you treat anxiety any different. They are all natural feelings.

I know exactly what you’re talking about. I went through the exact same thing. Don’t take this the wrong way- this is the same technique my therapist does with me. But I’m going to push back at you. What’s the fear if you disrupt the natural flow of your breath? What’s the fear of noticing it all the time? What if you noticed it all the time for the rest of your life? I’m asking these questions, because even if you believe you are going to disrupt the natural flow or always notice your breath, you are still you. You can still workout, meditate, hang with friends and family, work, cook, clean, travel. You can do all these things no matter how you are feeling. Feelings are just feelings. Thoughts are just thoughts. It is all just brain stuff. They do not define you.

When you say “get better, forget and then remember and then freak out” are you saying what if you recover from OCD then forget what you practiced and relapse? Just trying to follow you.

You’re not bothering me at all! I come on here just to help people. So it was really helpful for me to understand that OCD is about judgments. 10 years ago I thought it was not good to have anxiety. 10 years ago I would’ve told you I don’t want to have bad thoughts. That is all bananas. You can have any feeling, that includes anxiety. You can have any thought- that includes intrusive thoughts, scary thoughts, happy thoughts etc. feelings, thoughts and sensations are neutral and are things that you cannot control. It is all just what I call brain stuff. Your brain is an organ just like other organs in your body. Your liver detoxes. Your heart pumps blood etc. Your brain is like an uncertainty barometer. Your brain is literally just trying to keep you out of danger- so you can reproduce and eat, drink, live on. When you have a thought about your breath- “Oh no am I breathing correctly? Am I disrupting the flow? What if I hold my breath? Etc. Your brain just had a thought. You’re not actually worried about anything. That thought was perceived by your brain as danger because you have judged those thoughts as bad. It all comes back to judgement. So naturally your brain is going to fear your breath because you keep labeling it as bad. Your brain is just trying to help you and keep you safe. It’s actually being very logical. You don’t have a chemical imbalance and you’re not sick. You’ve just been engaging in compulsions and judgements. So next time you think about your breath and you start to feel anxious- Sit with it. If you’re driving and that happens- then keep driving. Don’t ruminate, don’t fidget, don’t try to control your breathing. Just drive. Same goes for working, studying, cooking, socializing. Your brain learns by actions not words. You don’t have to engage with your brain at all. If you have anxiety when doing those things when that thought comes up, then that’s fine. If you’re calm then that’s fine too. There’s no judgement. Just let your brain do it’s brain stuff and continue doing what you value.

@outdoorman What about a racing pulse? That’s new for me.

@JEH3 It’s common to have a racing pulse when anxiety arises. My question for you is- How does having that sensation make you feel? I think I know what your answer will be, but this will be a good practice. 😊

@outdoorman It scared me to death but what can I do about it when the anxiety hits?

@JEH3 Such a hard pill to swallow, because we all know how horrifying fear can be! But here’s some advice! It makes complete sense for someone with an anxiety disorder would want to know how to experience less anxiety, but I encourage you to learn to recognize that feeling to experience less anxiety, and not react to it. Here’s a simple analogy that will hopefully explain this a bit more: Getting over anxiety is like learning how to exercise after spending your entire life not exercising. So say you have a personal trainer, and you come to them. You say- “I’m really out of shape, I get out of bed in the morning, and right away I’m out of breath, and my heart is racing, my muscles are sore, just walking to get groceries I find myself sweating and my heart is beating so fast it feels like it’s going to beat out of my chest! How can I stop feeling so badly? I don’t want to experience this anymore!” What’s that personal trainer going to do? They’re going to tell you that you have to exercise! And they are going to put you on an exercise program, where they will structure a plan where you will experience these so called “negative sensations and feelings” of your heart racing and sore muscles pretty much every day of the week. That’s the same with an anxiety disorder and recovering from an anxiety disorder. Yes, those things you may not “like” right now, but it’s trying to avoid them, is what causes them. In your life if you’re always avoiding exercise, eventually everything is exercise. If you avoid sweating, then eventually everything makes you sweat. It’s difficult to do anything without feeling like you’re exercising. The same is true with an anxiety disorder. The more you avoid anxiety in every area of your life, every area of your life starts to trigger anxiety and you experience all over the place. The more you avoid anxiety you sort of spiral down into this pit of anxiety. Recovering from an anxiety disorder, will take you to turn around and climb out of that pit, and that’s going to mean putting yourself in situations that align with your values, as you accept whatever is going on in your head or any sensations you may be feeling, including a racing pulse. Yes, that’s going to be difficult and it will cause more anxiety AT FIRST, but overtime you learn to really embrace that. You can learn to accept the all the thoughts, feelings and sensations and act accordingly to your values. It’s just like someone who at first might hate exercising. Overtime, they’re going to start to like it. They will learn that they are breathing heavy and their muscles are sore, they correlate that with- “Oh I’m getting stronger! I’m getting better at exercising!” You can’t get over an anxiety disorder by trying to avoid anxiety. That IS the anxiety disorder. The beautiful thing you will realize from this whole thing is, when throwing yourself into anxiety, you will actually experience anxiety MUCH less! You will notice that your brain won’t be stuck in this odd OCD cycle. Your brain will no longer keep coming up with “scenarios” to get you to perform compulsions such as checking, controlling and coping. Anxiety is a natural feeling like any other feeling, and we need to give it a big hug! We don’t have to love it, but give it a hug and tell anxiety it can definitely be with us anytime it wants! You can invite anxiety in a healthy way by making changes in your every day life. Anxiety will eventually become bored of all this hugging and eventually the more you hug anxiety, the less you’ll see of it. 😊

@outdoorman I appreciate this. I am hanging by a thread today. I’m tired of my mind being whipsawed. One minute I’m going to stay and fight, the next I’m running away. It’s actually killing me.

@JEH3 I’m thinking of getting rid of all the machines and tools that take my vitals and just rely on my twice a year Dr visits (assuming no changes). Too much information without context is not mentally healthy for me. Would you agree?

@JEH3 Yes! You have the right idea. Getting rid of the machines and tools to take your vitals is a positive step in your direction towards what you value. Having the twice a year check ups from a medical professional is sufficient enough.

@outdoorman Thank you, sir. If you ever get to SC, I owe you a meal and the beverage of your choice.

@JEH3 Haha! I travel quite a bit, so I’ll take you up on that, my friend! I really wish there was a “magical sauce” to this whole OCD thing, but really it’s just doing what you value while having any thought, feeling or sensation…. And that’s it. We just get wrapped up in compulsions, and then we start believing all the weird idiotic stuff our brain throws up. Showing your brain that you trust yourself more than what that uncertainty barometer in your skull throws up is the key. Your brain will constantly keep looking for different things that you labeled as bad or you don’t like,to just get you to perform a compulsion. This evening, I would love for you to find something that you truly value. I’m not saying you must do something that brings you happiness, because you shouldn’t force a feeling! You can still find something you truly value while having ANY feeling…. So just find something you value. It can be taking a pet for a walk, making a dinner that is nutritious, watching the sunset, volunteering at an organization, going to see an old friend you haven’t seen in awhile, etc. The more you start doing things that you value, and the less you care about how you FEEL or what you feel, your brain will gradually go along with you and just observe without disrupting the flow. 😊

@outdoorman Man, that is awesome advice. And I’m going to do it. And I also mean it, if you get to SC please let me know. Between you and my OCD therapist, I’m forever in your debt.

@outdoorman Good morning. I’ve started having rushes of adrenaline at night that wake me up and give me a panic attack. Have you experienced anything like this? If so, were you able to get through it? Any advice? Last night was exhausting.

@JEH3 Hey good to hear from you! I have experienced something similar to this before, but when I would be awake lying in bed, not when I was asleep. Typically it was brought on by me ruminating on some topic that caused me anxiety. Obviously I’m not an MD, but if you are on medication, this may be a side effect of that drug?

@outdoorman My Dr says it’s night panic attacks. I hate them. Scares the h€// out of me.

@JEH3 Hmm that’s interesting. I have heard of night panic attacks, but never experienced them. Do you remember your dreams? Like say you’re having a dream that causes distress, do you automatically wake up in panic?

@outdoorman I don’t remember my dreams (not unusual for me). I’m wondering ( just a guess) that when I’m sleeping my body starts to relax and my brain sends out a signal that the body can’t do that because of a perceived threat. Just a SWAG, though. SWAG, in case you don’t know, is a technical term I learned in law school. Scientific Wild Ass Guess. 😂

@JEH3 Yeah, that’s an interesting concept, and something that could be possible. I did take SSRIs for maybe 2-3 months 10+ years ago when I first struggled with my mental health, before I knew anything about “mental fitness” cutting out compulsions, living by your values, etc.. And I recall waking up a few times in the middle of the night with night sweats, cotton mouth, brain zaps and racing heart. Told my doc at the time and he said it’s all common side effects of SSRIs. Again- not diagnosing you and I don’t care if you take medication or not, just giving you some peace of mind if you do take meds. If you think it’s exactly what you described above without the use of medication, then it sounds like you’re on the right track of accepting! Does it suck when your body wakes you up? Sometimes terrify you? Yeah! To all of those! You don’t have to like waking up terrified, but you’re still doing your day-to-day activities. I hope you’re still doing things that you value, and I’m sure you’re still practicing that. If you’re dwelling on the fact that you wake up panicked some nights, then that is the opposite of accepting. You woke up panicked- “that sucked, I’m terrified, my heart is racing, I’m sweating, I have the thought that I will never sleep peacefully again.”…… these are all natural feelings and random thoughts that pop up, and you can’t stop them from coming. But, what you can control are your actions. You don’t have to ruminate on it. You don’t have to google sleep disorders or information about panic attacks. You can simply lay back down and rest. Tell yourself you don’t have to fall asleep. Just say- “I’m going to lay in bed and rest, because no matter what weird thing pops up, I value my rest because it energizes me the next day.”

@outdoorman That’s kinda my response. I tell myself it’s a false alarm and go back to bed. I HATE them but I have to get on with my life and the false alarm statement seems to work best for me. It allows for the intrusive thoughts to move on quicker.

@JEH3 I like the “false alarm” statement! It really is just your brain throwing up weird, idiotic things to see what sticks!

And that’s perfectly alright! You can have the thought about your breath. If you have the thought, then simply do something you value. You can have any thought and do the things you care about. When you wake up and have the thought- then have a post note by your bed side ready. “I’m going to get out of bed and brush my teeth” Have another post it note in the bathroom that reads “I’m going to make breakfast” so on and so on. I found post it notes to be really helpful in my journey to recovery.

Sit with it. But there’s no judgement. There’s no doing a compulsion- which is anything you do to cope with, check on or control. Your brain will go to anything and that’s ok! That’s the whole reason to not fall into judgement.

For anything somatic like- breathing, blinking, heartbeat etc. I found ACT to be most helpful. I’m not saying ERP doesn’t help. ERP is considered the gold standard when it comes to OCD. In my opinion they are both helpful and beneficial at different times of my journey. I didn’t feel like I needed to “expose” my self to breathing, heartbeat, swallowing and blinking because those are automatic things that just happen no matter what, so I didn’t find ERP to be beneficial in that department. I also found that ERP for somatic symptoms just puts that fear in charge of your life- as in, your brain says “oh there must be something wrong if you’re reacting and judging, so I’ll just put this in charge of your life so we can always perform a compulsion” I believe there is always a root fear when it comes to OCD. My root fear of all fears is death. I now have become very close with death and made it a close friend. Some people have a root fear of being alone for the rest of their life. Some people fear they will lose control. Some fear they are going to be failures. Etc etc. I can guarantee you have a root fear.

@outdoorman Thank you. I'll work on getting to the bottom of that root fear.

I don’t really have a specific time frame when I got better. OCD was severe for me for over a decade. I just noticed it was getting better with the practices I’ve been telling you about and realizing fears are ok to have and my brain will throw anything at me to try to get me to react, because it only cares about the compulsions. It doesn’t matter the topic at all. ERP worked great for me to cut out physical compulsions- like checking the mirror to see if I existed or had something stuck in my teeth or something on my face before I talked to someone face to face. Or checking multiple times to see I ran over someone when I left my driveway in the mornings. I would circle around the block to check to see if I hit a jogger or someone walking in the morning. I would then check the news later to see if anyone got ran over. Etc etc. When ERP did wonders- then I had to learn to accept the things in my head. That’s where acceptance and non judgement come in. I told myself, I don’t have to answer every question my brain throws at me. Because ultimately we are seeking mental reassurance, which is a compulsion. So when you ask- “When did it finally go away for you?” Understand that is a compulsion. You are seeking reassurance from me. You don’t have to get the answer to that question. Let the uncertainty be there. “Am I disrupting the flow of my breath right now?” You don’t have to answer that. You can let lots of anxiety be present, while engaging in things you value. The more you do compulsions- the more your brain wants it. It wants you to be certain about everything. It’s like an addiction and the compulsions are the drugs. Stop taking the drugs and you will become healthier in the long run.

It just seems like you’re putting a lot of focus towards this. The more focus you put towards it, the more you’ll obsess over it. Your brain will naturally just want to solve this “problem” that you are facing. It’s just trying to protect you. So rather than put time and focus towards it. How about doing things that are actually important to you. Things that you value. Don’t forget to live.

So I realized when I would lay down to sleep- I would get anxious and have a thought like “Oh no I’ll never sleep again” Then I would try my best to not be anxious and just relax. But now I know to cut that out and just accept whatever my brain throws at me. Your brain is very logical and is going to say “oh you don’t like that thought and emotion, so we have to solve this problem! We can’t just go to sleep! We can’t relax! So now when I lay down for bed- I simply accept whatever thought and emotion I’m experiencing. If I lay there anxious then that’s fine. If I lay there calm then that’s fine too. There’s no judgement. Now my brain is like “ok there’s no problem here to solve, so I’ll just let this person do whatever” You can show your brain you are in charge. Not every thought and emotion.

Of course. OCD is an anxiety disorder. I had stomach pains, side pains, back pains, head pain, always felt short of breath etc. you name it- I’ve had it lol

1st question- Did this start before or after you started taking the medication?

That’s something you would have to talk to your doctor about. It maybe a dosage issue. It may be a wrong medication. It may be a side effect that goes away with time. This is all uncertainty and neither you or I can ever be certain.

My 2nd question I had for you was- What is your goal with taking medication?

It seems to me you are still “on the battlefield” remember there is no battle. The fight is over.

I’ll do an exercise with you right now- What are you currently doing at this moment?

@outdoorman Sitting at my desk trying to do light work.

Perfect. Now I want you to notice- I didn’t ask you how you are feeling at this moment. I asked you what you were doing. See how your brain automatically jumps to how you’re feeling? How you feel is actually irrelevant to what you are currently doing. So I’m trying to say- You can feel anyway you want. You can be mad, sad, happy, anxious, depressed, aroused. It doesn’t matter. Just continue doing work on the computer. 2nd part of the exercise- Why can’t you have anxiety and continue the things you are doing? Now answer that question.

Perfect! So mental health is exactly like physical health. Therefore, that means mental fitness is exactly like physical fitness. Let’s say you hired a fitness instructor because you want to learn to run a marathon and lift heavy weights to gain muscle. The instructor is going to start out small and push you to keep going longer distances and keep increasing in weight. The instructor will tell you time and time again- “This is going to be hard at first, but you will eventually become stronger, run longer and sweat less.” You’re going to be uncomfortable many times when you exercise. The exercises will be hard for you. This exact scenario goes for mental fitness. When you say- “I think I will never be okay.” That’s cognitive fusion. That’s when you believe you are your thoughts, or your thoughts mean something important to you. But thoughts are just brain farts. They mean absolutely nothing. We learn by doing actions. As humans we learn by actions, not thoughts. You trying to change the way you feel- Is the problem. You can be uncomfortable and still do things you value. You can be distracted, but bring your attention back to what you’re doing without judgement. Things that help this are meditating and mindfulness.

@outdoorman Thank you. Should I keep going with the meds although they make me more anxious?

@Rose That is 100% your decision. I can’t tell you what to do, especially when it comes to medication.

It’s ok to have tough days. I still have tough days but manage to do the things I value. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HOS2ykEdZdY

@outdoorman Hello I'm back I noticed when I am talking to clients I run out of breath but that doesn't make sense. Did you experience this. I got off the luvox. It made me depressed

@Rose Hello! When you say you’re running out of breath when talking to clients- it can be anxiety? Maybe you’re just over excited? Maybe you’re tired? Obviously I don’t know the answer to your question. It’s uncertainty and I can never be certain, either can you. But I will say I’ve had similar experiences and I simply treat it the same way I do everything. Continue to do what I value and what is important to me no matter what I’m feeling. How is everything going otherwise? Practicing meditation? Post it notes? Therapy?

@outdoorman Hello. Im in therapy. I wish I could say I'm doing better. I'm not handling this ocd too well. I keep thinking back on when I got the anxiety attack that started the breathing ocd and wish I had not gone to where I went. I also have increased anxiety. Never had this much anxiety before. I'll keep pushing. The breathing ocd sucks.

@outdoorman Yes practicing meditation. Yes post it notes

@outdoorman Oh also did your chest fee heavy as if breathing was tough. Wondering if this part of ocd or something else

@Rose Yeah I had many symptoms just like this. Just anxiety and general

@outdoorman Here is where I'm at. When you go to sleep or lay down you notice your breathing which is natural. I think. How do you go back to accepting it is and not part of ocd.

@Rose So how do you accept the clouds in the sky? Or accept the grass? Accept COVID? Answer that question before you move on. This will help you get a better idea of how acception works.

@outdoorman This morning I woke up trying to not disrupti my breath and in sweats. This scares me and also makes it hard to work. The clouds don't scare me. Lol

@outdoorman I hear you though I will try harder

@Rose I’m not trying to be condescending or scornful towards you. I just believe in tough love. I consider myself a coach when it comes to helping people with mental health. You should still try to answer the question about how you accept the clouds. Or grass outside. Or the trees etc. it’s a good practice to understand how to properly accept something. How do you accept the “good” thoughts you have? That’s a good question to answer.

@outdoorman Thank you. Let me think on that . You been great and I'm really grateful. I'm having a hard time accepting where I am and scared of the future and as I brave the breath ocd. Intrusive thoughts are surfacing. My stomach also hurts and I'm having a hard time working or enjoying things . Let me ponder. Thank you. You've helped me get through so far

@outdoorman I accept them because its nature so its just there and always has been. The bad thoughts I don't enjoy and are sometimes difficult to ignore.

@Rose Did you have intrusive thoughts also?

@outdoorman Hello. How are you. I see small improvements. Now I wonder how tp stop checking . Thank you so much