Does anyone else with contamination ocd struggle to trust certain things? I really dont trust hand sanitizer which sucks. We went out today and I thought I grabbed a railing so I used sanitizer but always feel like maybe my sanitizer is fake or something. Or like....to me it seems crazy that you wash for 20 seconds but only have a few seconds before sanitizer dries and you're supposed to trust it. Sometimes I struggle to trust disinfectant as well but I honestly have no choice in that. I have to trust it or I'd give myself a heart attack.

Hahaha so true. I watch employees sanitize carts at the grocery stores as if it just takes a wipe down. The fastest disinfectant I have is 45 seconds and then wipe down. Lysol is 4 minutes.

@catattak Haha! You know about “dwell time”! Love it. Many disinfectants are 10min. I feel like most people have no idea about dwell time.

@Alyosha I read the directions! Contamination ocd pro over here haha

@catattak I'm not sure if I'm looking for reassurance or not . But I've been searching the internet for good info on covid 19 and its viability on surfaces. I put my shipping away for 2 weeks , but after the 2 weeks I still use gloves. I want to stop this but I need to see the scientific evidence that is safe. I can't just think what if it's not and just deal with the anxiety , that dosn't work with me , not during this pandemic. So I'm just wondering if you have any good resources that confirm that is safe and I can finally stop using the gloves and breathe in my house again

@bonjess Shopping not shipping

@bonjess Hey! So I used to leave it 7 days because I happened to read an article early on that said 7 days for plastic and steel and I was trapped there. I now only do 3 days and that's certainly a challenge but I don't because like that video I sent you, it tells you to do cdc guidelines and no more. The cdc says 3 days. That doesnt mean I'm perfect with cdc guidelines yet. Far from it. I still shower when I come in just from walks around my neighbourhood and I dont go inside any building that's not my house. I'm still fairly trapped but I'm working on progress not perfection. I also came across this article a while ago https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/scourge-hygiene-theater/614599/ that helped me understand fomite transmission a it better and it helped. I still wash like crazy but my anxiety is less and it helped me come down from 7 days to 3 days and I hope that I can eventually stop showering when coming in from outdoors. Progress not perfection :)

@bonjess Curious if you got a chance to take a look and what you thought?

@catattak Thank you for that article , that's the sort of info that I need . The scientific facts work with me better. Are you good after the 3 days , do you use gloves or just treat the groceries like normal . I just have to get over the thought of my hands being contaminated and passing it on to other things . I guess I have to trust the science, its hard though.

@bonjess It took me a while to get on board with three days but now I just treat them as normal after 3 days. No gloves or handwashing. Even 3 days is over doing it according to the cdc, but like you, I need specifics and dont understand why they say to wash my hands after dealing with the groceries when I get in, but ca just leave them in my pantry like normal and not worry after that. Makes no sense to me so I go with the three days. I do understand however that 3 days is with a huge amount of virus, even larger than a sneeze and I reeaaalllly doubt someone is straight up sneezing on groceries then putting them back on the shelf. Last weekend I accidentally used gardening gloves that my husband stored new paper goods on (1 and a half days in the garage). I didnt notice the paper goods, grabbed my gloves and went out in the garden, sweated, wiped my face and eyes with the gloves and only realized after. I cried and cried and cried and showered and cried. I was so scared. It took me 2-3 days to come to terms with the fact that it happened but that it's very unlikely someone sneezed directly on that item and put it back. I have faith I will be okay, but did put a plan in place with my husband for if I get sick.

@bonjess I should mention that I sanitize anything refrigerated or frozen before putting it away which is also it recommended but I have to be transparent here. I'm not perfect with this in anyway. Pantry items and fruits and veg get left for three days then treated as normal.

@catattak **not reccomended

God its exhausting.

That's good to know! I think my trouble is that hand sanitizer is hard to.come bym mine is off brand and so I dont trust it. One step it purely might make me happier

@catattak I have a hard time trusting off brands, too. Name brands are still hard to get here, so I make sure the active ingredient is ethanol/ethyl and is at least 60% (CDC guidelines).

I did seek reassurance a lot st first. I'd ask my husband all the time "the virus lasts three days at longest right? So I can get my cereal from the groceries and be fine right?" I know we aren't supposed to but it did help give me the courage to just touch those items without washing. At the start I'd even grab the items and say "okay, I touched the cereal and the cupboard and the utensil drawer and I didnt wash my hands just so you know okay?" And he'd reassure me it was fine. I think this is the first week we did groceries and I didnt ask for reassurance, I just got in there and grabbed the stuff I needed after 3 days. Chilled stuff is still really difficult for me. I wipe the items down and then make us wash or hands before and after the freezer. I also take as much stuff out of its packaging as possible and have to trust that factories have to be sanitary when they are packaging stuff. Its really hard because on one hand you think "all this work avoiding the virus is worth it not to be on a ventilator". But realistically, all this hard work we are putting in to avoid it is damaging our mental health. I used to tell my therapist "I dont care if my hands are cracked and raw. Better than a ventilator!" What I didnt realize is that it wasnt just my hands being damaged. It was my mental health and my relationships and I needed more balance in my life to keep going. These measures we take just build and build and build and make us think we are safe. For example, we were safe after the first 20 seconds of hand washing, the next 20 seconds were no longer protecting us, they were hurting our mental health. It's so very difficult to be more relaxed about this when the whole world is shutting down over this, but we also have to give our brains a fighting chance so we can come out of this as stable as possible when it passes.

@catattak That’s a really good point about physical vs mental health. I’ve been having trouble seeing it that way. I say to myself “it’s a good idea to NEVER leave my house because I’m staying safe.” But I’m definitely not staying SANE by doing so.

@Crissy That one is very very tough. I have some other medical issues I've had to have imaging and specialist appointments for and I've been forced to go those. As much as I hate them for making me expose myself, it's been good to have the experience that I went out and didnt get sick. I even had to sit in the emergency department for several hours WITH people coughing and I was okay. The doctor even told me people with covid go in there all the time. I was petrified, but the hospital was safe. My office is calling us back in to pack up as there is a move taking place. A moving company will collect all of our boxes and move them but we have to go.in to pack the boxes. I'm so scared and probably shouldnt be. The issue is I work on the 7th floor and I'll either be in a tiny elevator with crap ventilation or using the stairs where everyone has huffed and puffed get their butts up to the upper levels. I'm trying to decide if I go as ERP and to collect my personal belongings or have someone else do it for me for safety....

@catattak Wow, as scary as that sounds, it’s reassuring that you are ok. I had to go to the bank yesterday and I was petrified so I can only imagine the ER. Deciding what to do about the move sounds stressful. I’m in a similar situation. I’m about to move apartments and I’m terrified of movers touching my things, but I also don’t want to ask family/friends to help because I’m afraid of getting them sick. Either option will be an exposure which I guess will be a good thing.

@Crissy Oh wow that's a big one too. Moving is stressful and not fun as it is. You should update us on how it goes!

@catattak Will do! And same for you!

@catattak Thank you so much for your words. I went to bed last night feeling more confident that I was going to make a change when I got up. Unfortunately I woke up stressed out and had that sick dread feeling I usually get . I just want to stay in bed and not face reality. I really do just want to grab that cereal without gloves and not wash my hands , but I just can't get myself to do it, I would think my hands are contaminated and need to wash . I really want to do this it's just hard. And then i keep thinking is it worth doing it to have the stress after , why not just use the gloves and save myself the anxiety . Ahhhhhh not a good day

@bonjess I'm so sorry. Is there something smaller you can start with? I didnt start with groceries. For the first bit I wasnt touching anything in my house without washing my hands. Like if I were getting a plate, I'd wash my hands, grab the cupboard handle with one hand, grab the plate with my other clean hand, put the plate somewhere I seemed clean, then wash my hands. I started with surfaces in my house that my partner was touching care free. He does wash his hands more than regular people I think for me, but nowhere near as much as I do. I had to trust that he was doing cdc guidelines (before and after touching his face, bathroom etc) and that the virus wasnt in my own home. Groceries was after I could touch things in my own house that hadn't been outside. I think to go straight to groceries would be too much. Or even cutting down wash time. I think maybe wash time was my first step. I did 20 seconds (thoroughly and thoughtfully) then stopped. You need to be mindful when you are washing your hands or you wont trust yourself and you'll wash again.

Well maybe this is a scenario then where you write a script about the exposure first. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to do those. I dont have an ocd therapist so I'm a little self taught. Or you just have to to dive in and force it. I think something I did too was like....touch a grocery item and then touch my phone. I washed my hands but I'm really sensitive about using sanitizer (i ration it because I'm scared there will be a shortage again) so i refused to sanitize my phone. Then i went about my day touching my phone and then other things. It was difficult but that's something I do sometimes too if I can't force myself to touch an item that is rationally fine to touch.

Well my understanding is reassurance doesnt work because our ocd brains just find a way to not believe it. My therapist said my brain is a lawyer and I just have to roght the anxiety. She told me that I have to 'prepare to go into battle' before doing something that makes me anxious. I used to write down key things she'd say to me and use them as my battle prep. You have to acknowledge and be steadfast to fight those thoughts. Before you even touch something, remember that the anxiety monster is going to try to win. But you have to fight. Accept that you are never going to be comfortable or ready to do this and it's like going into battle. I used to literally think of myself as Mel Gibson in braveheart hahaha. These things cant take my freedom and when I touch the item, and the anxiety monster starts swinging its weight around, I have to fight, I have to beat it. All I can tell you is that viruses need a human host to live and they die after a time without it. For SARS COV-2 research has shown 3 days on plastic or steel. Bacteria needs organic food to sustain but, theres no organic material on your groceries. That's the science around it. After that, nothing will assure you they are safe after 3 days, because that's literally science, nothing can top that. But I get it, because I am also hesitant at 3 days. We think we're the Guinea pig test that will prove the three days science wrong. Maybe start at 7 rather than 14. But regardless, it will be a war and if you know that going into it, you wont he caught off guard with fear, you'll be prepared to fight the battle.