What does it mean when people say “you don’t have to do something to get love?” Surely you do have to? How else do you get people to love you? I don’t understand. Maybe love just doesn’t exist? Or if it does, it’s not for a long time? Unless it’s from your mother in which case it is lifelong

#wise

Yeah I’ve said so many times that I already have a fear of being kicked out unexpectedly due the the fact it happened once already and him “suggesting” I leave for space doesn’t make me WANT to give up my flat!!! Cuz it I did I wouldn’t HAVE anywhere to have space next time he gets fed up of me. He then says “ffs this is meant to be a nice happy thing and now it’s always taboo” I intend on going today but now he’s feeling unwell. I don’t have my car and I need him to take me back. I don’t wanna ask my parents to get me as I’ve avoided them due to covid19

@uwotm8 What is he referring to when he says "ffs this is meant to be a nice happy thing and now its always taboo"?

@MJocd Me moving into his house. I worry about giving up my flat when he has said multiple times to go back to my flat for space. If he constantly wants me to go to my flat, how can he expect me to feel comfortable giving it up?! Then he says I made it taboo and not fun. It should be nice and something to look forward to. When I say it makes me anxious as FUCK as I got that flat when my last boyfriend o lived with chucked me out with no warning, he refers to that now as “me flipping out”

@uwotm8 It’s like he thinks I’m unreasonable for being upset and confused. He claims well because it was a suggestion not an order, I shouldn’t be so sensitive. When I agreed the other day I need MY OWN space from the name calling etc he was like fine pack everything don’t come back, but when he does suggest I leave he only means a few days. I apparently don’t have the same luxury of making suggestions or decisions

@uwotm8 Tell him you're not going to give up your own flat until he has stopped making threats and implications about kicking you out, and then refuse to engage with it when he tries to bully you about it. Tell him your decision is final and walk out of the room. Then stick with your decision and don't give up your flat.

@Louw Phew okay thank god cuz I have been feeling worried ever since he mentioned it and I didn’t know if I was being just anxious cuz I’m an anxiety sufferer and I have ocd, or if it’s just my past relationship where he threw me out without having somewhere to go, or a combo of everything, or if he’s being unfair right now? Either way, I’m not excited. I’m FUCKING TERRIFIED

@uwotm8 @uwotm8 Yeah it's possible that anxiety from it having happened before is a factor. But that doesn't mean your choice is unreasonable. If I was dating a guy who kept going between threatening to kick me out/"suggesting" I leave, and trying to get me to give up my flat, there's no way I would do it. Plus living in his flat would give him much more control over my life- not only control over whether I'm homeless (what's to stop him from telling me I can only stay if I fulfill a list of requirements of stuff he doesn't like that he wants me to change and shit he expects me to do for him) but more control and potentially criticism in what I do, what I say, who I'm friends with etc. It could be that there's a small and very sane part of your brain which is also setting off alarm bells at the situation you're considering walking into.

@uwotm8 You can have rOCD but still have legitimate fears and relationship problems.

Like when people say you dont need to work hard to earn love, it should just come from a person? I don’t see how that works

@uwotm8 Do you feel that others need to work to earn your love or kindness?

@Louw Not like me, no!!! I keep trying to kiss my partner when he’s annoyed but he’s annoyed at me because I confronted him about his behaviour? Now I’m somehow having to persuade him to love me?

@uwotm8 It sounds like you had an argument and he just needs a little space to process it. Don't try to persuade, give him a chance to come around on his own. He wants to know that it's ok to feel annoyed.

@emc He massively overreacted. Called me a cunt etc and now I’m sat trying to change his mind and love me again

@uwotm8 What emc said. Him not kissing you right now right after an argument doesn't mean that he doesn't love you. But if the behaviour continues and he tries to punish you for setting boundaries by withholding affection, that would be a red flag.

@Louw This arguement was nearly 4 days ago

@Louw He’s told me to leave and go back to my place and I initially planned on officially moving in with him to his house. Now I actually feel anxious to leave tomorrow for a break myself this time (he’s asked me to leave loads before now and I used to get panicky but now I need a break)

@uwotm8 I don't know your relationship, but it sounds like he crossed a line. Feeling annoyed and lashing out verbally are two different things. It's not your job to change how he feels. Focus on how YOU feel about what he said. If you aren't ok with his behavior, you should be able to tell him that. But don't expect him to change by giving affection.

@uwotm8 You seem pretty aware that he's treating you like shit and it's unreasonable. Part of you wants to make excuses for him to get the happy-ever-after fantasy back which he's destroying and part of you wants to get away from toxic behaviour you know is unwarranted. My advice is to get rid of him. You're exactly where billions of women have been over the course of history. Every single one of them rationalised it to themselves with plausible excuses for his behaviour and felt that they just know the sweet damaged boy he is deep down. Me included. And yet I've never met a woman who didn't regret every second she chose to stay in a relationship like yours. It doesn't matter if he's depressed or hurting. His behaviour is categorically unacceptable. Continuing to make excuses for it and let it slide enables him to continue his behaviour. Even people who are in pain have to learn that it's not acceptable to take it out on others.

@Louw Unconditional love doesn't mean unconditional lack of boundaries!

So he was verbally abusive and kept saying to leave. You agree to take a break for a while and he guilt trips you about it by claiming you want him to grovel when what you want is him to stop being an asshole. He claims you're living in the past because he changed his mind about telling you to leave when actually you're considering leaving because he's behaving like a cuntbaby. You agree to let the name-calling go as a one off and stay. He continues to be cold and mean so you decide to go for your own sanity. Now that you've gone he's trying to make you regret setting that boundary and putting yourself first. Protip: when someone is abusive, then apologises and tells you that you ought to forgive them, and then claims that you're living in the past whenever you set boundaries, they're an asshole. I had this precise thing once. I found out my boyfriend had been lying to my friends about me deliberately negatively mischaracterising me. I caught him out in it, he gave me a half assed apology, did nothing whatsoever to put it right and told me if I'm not willing to forgive and forget immediately then I should leave him. No effort. No offer to win my trust back. No explanation. No accountability. Just "yep, I did that, what are you going to do about it?". I left. Immediately. Non accountability is a deal breaker. It's a sign of a seriously dangerous personality. I cut off all contact. A month later he emailed me dick pics and claimed he was drunk when he sent them. Idk whether it was an attempt to intimidate me or just suck me back into contact. I later found out he had even physically abusive and intimidating with at least 3 exes, had lied copiously to me about one of his exes and was keeping her from seeing her own daughter, and had a long rap sheet of domestic violence and gun charges including throwing his ex down a flight of concrete stairs. Drop. Him. If he magically changes and becomes accountable and considerate and willing to work to earn your trust back rather than blaming you and demanding immediate forgiveness, maybe you can give him another chance. In the meantime, staying in that relationship will destroy your self esteem. Yeah the memory of the initial love bombing was great. But you're being naïve. I have had healthy relationships since the one I just described and they're based on trust and accountability and boundaries. Treating eachother well, and taking responsibility when you slip up. Mutual effort at communicating in a healthy way. Hard boundaries on name calling and other abuse. There are decent men in the world. But you teach people how to treat you.

Louw has really summed it up super well, theres not a lot more I can add to that as I completely agree with her. I've seen the exact same dynamic with my sister in law and her husband, it was by far the most toxic relationship I ever witness and she would constantly confide in me, and constantly I'd have to reassure her knowing full well they're relationship was completely toxic and they needed to separate. Her mistake number 1 was always the willingness to accept his toxic behaviour, the more toxic he became, the more willing she became to keep him at any cost. He hit her, he was isolated her from her friends and family, and all that happened very quickly (with in a year of marriage) but it started off with "leave, pack your bags and leave" right after they got married. She was told on multiple occasions to just "leave". Her willingness to keep him became so much that she dropped her standards so low, I remember her saying to me "I'd even want to be with him if he had an affair". I just remember feeling sad for that she'd lost so much of herself trying to keep a relationship working that shed even lost respect for her self. Honestly, your boyfriend seems to be lacking in showing care or consideration. "Dont expect a ceremony from me" or like the other you said, he said "it wouldnt be genuine to try and comfort you" . He probably thinks in his head he is being "real" with you, when actually he is being an asshole. Why would he even get into a partnership with someone and not act like a partner? It sounds to me, he would be better off single for now while he sorts himself out, and you would be better off not trying to fight for love and affection and actually receive all the things you need (love/kindness/comfort/affection) from a person that cares for you considerably.

Moving out was a very brave step, and I think you made a good decision. Honestly, when I read your first post, I assumed you were a lonely teenager with zero dating experience. Nobody should have to feel like a lonely teenager while living with a partner. Relationships are supposed to make you feel safe and cared for. It's going to be painful for awhile, there is just no way to avoid it. You would have been in pain even if you stayed. Let it feel painful for a few weeks, and then after that you will hopefully start feeling like yourself again. Listen to your pain, it will help you find what you really want. Use this time to think about what YOU need in order to be happy.

@MJocd Yeah I think there is something about the way they present ultimatums of "put up with how I treat you/ignore and forget my cruelty and dismissiveness/accept my version of reality where you're to blame, or leave" which leads people to putting up with so much before they finally reach the end of their tether. Nobody wants to break up over something which seems fixable but in reality they're not going to change it. It's such an extreme when they say that, there's no compromise in it at all, no real willingness to accept accountability and take practical steps towards making amends and no longer doing it so the relationship can be better. Just projection of blame which makes us doubt ourselves, and the ultimatum. In my situation we'd been together over a year, I actually felt that we were otherwise-compatible and had interests in common etc but it was clear to me that if I just let this awful thing he did go and lowered my standards, there would be nothing to stop him from treating me worse and worse and I would find it harder and harder to set boundaries because I would have invested even more hope and effort in the relationship. It's even harder to draw the line when you've never experienced what a healthy relationship actually feels like other than the honeymoon phase where they make an effort to at least appear to have integrity and standards for how they treat others. It's so tempting to want to stay and try to fix things rather than leaving a situation like that without a sense of the closure you deserve- but they won't give you closure, you have to make it for yourself. I didn't mean to be harsh in saying she's being naïve but unfortunately it's true. It's not a crime or a flaw to be naïve, it's innocence and seeing all the good in others and hoping for the best. But it's dangerous to be naïve. There's wisdom in the crowds of people who have already been through this and seen how it goes.