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I have suffered with ROCD since the very beginning of my relationship and it makes it really hard to decipher what is real and what is not. Intrusive thoughts include “do I find him attractive?” “Do I love him?” They come as statements too. It’s upsetting as he’s so wonderful and perfect for me in every way and I feel as though I’m constantly lying to him. He deserves better than me. I had two amazing days last week when I fell so happy and in love with him, it was the feeling I’d been waiting for for 4 months. It was incredible. Then after that I fell into nearly two weeks of negative thought patterns and rumination. In a way I believe this could be because those two days finally showed my brain that I DO love him so now OCD has attacked hard and made the thoughts even more real and convincing. So convincing that the last couple of days I’ve nearly cried kissing his cheek incase it’s the last time I do so because I truly believe I need to set him free. I hold onto his hand a little tighter in case I can’t hold it anymore. I can’t tell what’s OCD and what’s the excitement of a new relationship wearing off. I care about his happiness so much so this is destroying me. I’m not seeking reassurance but wanting to get some things off my chest.
i feel like my feelings are really gone but i can’t help feeling sad about it but i can’t cry either
Hello:) I can feel myself getting better and I’m proud. Although, When I’m starting feel good feelings and like myself it feels fake, it feels like I shouldn’t be, and it feels like somethings wrong because I’m feeling better, but at the same time when I feel good I get all this energy to do something because I finally feel “good.” This happens every once in a while..it’s just a reminder that healing isn’t linear 💙 some times it’s going to be really hard and feel really real..while others it’s going to feel like everything is somewhat more quiet than it has been. I get scared that my OCD is going to get bad again..like really scared. And that’s okay. Im trying to give myself permission to feel these things without avoidance, and I’m working on that In every second of everyday and night. If it’s really hard right now just know I hear you, and I understand you. I feel your pain and I promise you, it will get better :))💞you, me, and all of us are strong enough and got this!!
Has anyone else noticed how ruminating can actually hurt ur head ? I been switching back and forth to thoughts and triggers anxiety so that’s why I keep doing it rather than jus sitting wit it .
I wanted to give some advice to my rOCD friends. I also have rOCD, but I’m happy to say that nearly 2 years after my diagnosis I’m doing much better and am in a loving relationship. I see a lot of you worrying about whether or not you’re with the right partner. Worrying about if you actually love them or find them attractive. And of course, worrying that you don’t actually have rOCD. It sucks, I know. I used to worry about the same things too (and still do, just far less). I’m not here to tell you that you’re partner is right for you, because idk if that’s true. You could very well be with someone who’s not good for you. Or you could be with someone who is good for you. That’s beside the point. The point is that regardless of whether your partner is right for you or not, a person without rOCD doesn’t worry like we do. The anxiety, ruminating, and constant questioning and reassurance-seeking we do is not typical for most people. Why am I saying this? Because I want you to try ERP. A lot of you seem very hesitant to give ERP an honest try for more than a few days because there’s this fear that you’re lying to yourself. I understand, I used to feel like that too. But regardless of whether or not you’re lying to yourself or not, the amount of suffering and anxiety you experience is not warranted even if you are with the wrong person. The only way to recover from this anxiety is to expose yourself to it and face it head-on. Maybe you do ERP for a few weeks and you come out the other side realizing you don’t live your partner. So be it. Maybe you come out realizing you still love your partner. Both scenarios can happen. The point of ERP is to help you accept your negative intrusive thoughts, not to save your relationship. Whether or not you should stay with your partner, I can’t say. What I can say is that you can’t properly make that judgment when you’re plagued with all these intrusive thoughts and anxiety. So treat that first. Only when you learn to accept your intrusive thoughts and not let them bother you can you really make some sort of judgment. Even then things will never be certain. But that’s ok. You guys got this 💪🏼
How do you know if an exposure is good to do or not? Thoughts?
im so stressed out. my thoughts feel so real.
I used to have sexual orientation ocd I got better then I read another post now I’m like triggered and it’s making me overthink do I even find my boyfriend attractive is that why my sex hasn’t been present so I like girl more , do I even wanna be with him , why do I think girl are attaryive but I could never see myself with one or even romantic or physically. But I haven’t been seeing guys that way I love my boyfriend that’s why I stay but why has sex been off I haven’t had it in months so I wonder is it because I’d rather be with a girl any tips to help calm down these non sense I do NOT WANT TO BE BI I don’t want to it makes me feel Awful inside (I support anyone who is tho ) just why would I be wouldn’t I already have been with a girl . Like I’m just spiraling in the bathroom while my bf is in my room trying to comfort me and tell me no I’m not it’s just because it read a post that made me overthinking.
Has anyone had intense anxiety/adrenaline at the start of taking antidepressants? And if so, how did you manage until they started to kick in? I feel like clawing walls with this feeling, especially while battling intrusive thoughts.
For people that have a fear of wetting themselves before going to bed, I had the same obsession BUT! here’s how I fixed it: Before going to bed, I go to the bathroom. It’s a nightly routine thay most people follow, but that’s where the issue started. My OCD would tense me up so much, I couldn’t pee. So, I said to myself, “I’m going to pee by the count of 5. If I don’t, I’m going to bed and I’m not getting up.” So I counted 5, 4, 3, 2, 1… and if I did not start going to the bathroom by the end of my count, I said to my mind, “You didn’t let me pee, so I’m going to bed and will not get up.” Let me tell you, my mind was PISSED off and VERY anxious. But I didn’t get up and I didn’t give in. This obsession went away after a month.
At the risk of reassurance- One thing I’ve realized after my endless battle with ocd (20 years or so)… Is that it’s always going to feel real. It’s always going to feel like you “want” it. It wouldn’t be ocd if it didn’t. If it didn’t feel real, why else would we be so distressed? If it felt fake, we wouldn’t even care. It wants to keep us stuck in a state of flight or fight to “protect” us from perceived danger. Misfiring of the signals in the brain create the sensations, urges, feelings. To keep us stuck and believing we are in imminent danger. Just a little food for thought.
What are some thoughts you practice to come to terms with uncertainty? I’m struggling to accept that my thoughts are not true because there is always that small chance that they could happen.
has anyone here experienced recovery and do you mind sharing how long it took to feel relief ? and how it’s been?
I feel disconnected. What do you do to ground yourself? I’m frustrated as this was not something I had to deal with before depression and anxiety!!
Have you ever look at the mirror and see that your face is not really your face? Like facial features are the same, but you don't feel like you is really you. Sounds weird but I've experienced it many times. Is that OCD thing or something different?
Any recommendations on things to do after a ERP session? Working out, go for a walk, meditation?
Hi! I’m Alyssa, I’m 22. I’ve been a perfectionist for as long as I can remember but I thought it was just a quirk about me, and also something that would assist my ambition in getting me where I needed. I am not very *organized* or *clean* per say, so OCD is never something I considered for myself. I recently confronted my anxiety about the future with my CBT therapist (who I love) and took a hiatus because I was doing a lot better. Basically, I am obsessed with things happening just the way I expected them to, having my reality completely aligning with my hopes and dreams. Otherwise I can’t feel peace. I’ve been with the same person for about 15 months now, and every single thing about him and us is lovely. However, I keep feeling doubts and crippling anxiety about our future together. I feel like I need to find this certainty and unbounded contentment with him. Isn’t that how you “know”? That’s the construct of love and marriage I created for myself at some point in my life. I’ve had no one in my family get divorced and the pressure of living up to that expectation makes it so hard to move forward with a marriage. I can’t make the wrong move, but how do I *know*? It’s a lot of unreasonable pressure on my sweet oblivious boyfriend. I feel like I betray him every time I see him because what if I don’t love him the way he loves me? I don’t feel contentment. I keep googling and googling looking for confirmation that, no, this IS normal. Or I immediately rush to a trusted friend to assure me of how great we are together. These intrusive thoughts have been ruining my time with him and I feel compelled to end it just to feel the temporary relief that comes with it. I almost did once, but I couldn’t go through with it when considering the gaping “him”-shaped hole it would leave in my life. Fast forward to me discovering the anxiety love coach podcast on spotify. I never knew that relationship OCD existed and I have never felt so seen or validated. I am hopeful now that I can soothe these future-related invasive thoughts and be happy in my healthy relationship.
Encouragement for teens: I had terrible pure and religious ocd in high school. I remember thinking I wasted my life and nothing good would ever happen; I was a loser. Looking back (I’m 35 now); that was just not true. I’ve traveled the world; held great jobs; married the love of my life; had best friends; have two beautiful children…. Ocd tried to tell me what my awful future would be like. I’m here to tell you it CANNOT know all the wonderful potential in your future:) don’t give up
Does anyone else just feel like the worst person on the planet?
Made an si post and I want to share something I thought of just in case anyone needs it. So often we hear “don’t kill yourself because blank will be sad” and a lot of the time that’s what keeps us alive right? However it’s frustrating to live for other people. So do it for yourself, love your loved ones because you want to feel the feeling of giving love. Live for love. I love my girlfriend to death and that’s important to me. I also need to realize that I’m not just loving her for nothing. I love her because I love loving her. Live to love, and live to love without any connecting to morality.
How do you guys tolerate enough uncertainty to find a partner? I know a lot of ppl have ocd over whether their partner is right but I feel like that affects me in the dating stage so i cant stick up w anyone in the first place. Maybe i just havent found the right person
does anyone else catch themselves accidentally staring at people in the wrong places as in their private areas? i hate this so fucken much. i have no thoughts when doing it but when i realized i looked i feel irritated and frustrated bc i feel like im a bad person or something. i feel like it’s a never ending battle with ocd.
is there a link between sertraline and teeth grinding?? week 4 and i’ve started grinding my teeth which i never used to do
New fear unlocked: rabies ✨✨ thanks tik tok
TW - existential OCD also long post Lately the things that have been triggering my OCD haven't been quite as intense, but now things that normally don't bother me are making me anxious. I've been having intrusive thoughts about my existence and why I'm here. I ruminate about my perception of the world and how other people perceive me and just who I am in general and why. Why am I me specifically? Why wasn't I born as anybody else? I don't hate my life or wish I was somebody else, I just don't understand why I am coincidentally experiencing the world around me along with everybody else. Sometimes I get the thought that I'm the only "real" person and that everybody else is computer generated or in my imagination or a part of a test some higher power is putting me through. It's not because I view people as lesser, I just don't know why I'm here. The universe is full of coincidences and accidents, but what chooses who perceives the world from a specific body? How are we supposed to know that we're experiencing the same feeling when you can only see the world through your own eyes? This is a lengthy post and I apologize for that, these thoughts have just been kinda upsetting and they make me feel even more isolated. Sometimes I wish I could share my mind with somebody so I would have somebody that would fully understand my thought process.
im so tired of the “what if you do it, or what if you just act on your thoughts” i’m tired. so tired. i feel like my body wants to give up on me 😞 i’m already extremely weak from losing my dad only 4 months ago. what do i do. this is taking a huge toll on me..
“Post” OCD experience. During lockdown I had a painful year of pure obsessive HOCD, often spent fantasising about a time where I would be free of my obsession. A year later, having medicated and put my self through ERP, free of my OCD, I’m still painfully unsatisfied. I’m in a happy relationship, I go to university, I play football, have nice friends. etc… but life is so foggy now. I’m extremely out of touch with my emotions now(having previously been obsessively in touch with them), I can hardly remember each day that goes by, nothing seems real anymore. Can anyone else relate?
Hi ocd warriors! I'm having an extremely sticky OCD week and frankly, it sucks. I'm reminding myself that sticky days and weeks do not mean square one - and maybe you need that reminder too! We can do this ♥️
“Letting go gives us freedom, and freedom is the only condition for happiness. If, in our heart, we still cling to anything, anger, anxiety, or possessions, we cannot be free.” -Thich Nhat Hanh
“Breathing in, I calm body and mind. Breathing out, I smile. Dwelling in the present moment I know this is the only moment.” -Thich Nhat Hanh
Hi I have harm ocd , false memory ocd and intrusive thoughts. It’s very distressing and it makes life very difficult. I can’t be near any objects that could cause harm for example kitchen knifes and I can’t walk near dumpsters cause my ocd makes me think that I throw people in them after I hurt them
It's 11:45 pm in my country My day was good. I had intrusive thoughts, but they shouldn't determine if we had a good day or not! Have a good day everybody❤
Anybody with Real Event OCD have any tips for accepting past events? Especially with distinguishing acceptance from saying something is morally okay. I had a real event obsession in the past, but I am new to considering it in terms of OCD, and I never really accepted the event, per se. Other obsessions just stole the show. Every once in a blue moon it comes back and gets to me. But I also think it will help me with my retroactive jealousy obsession and accepting my partner’s sexual past. Whenever I try to accept it, my brain will frame it from a new angle that’s harder to accept. This makes me feel like I’m doing it wrong.
So i just recently downloaded this app.I think I have OCD but I dont know what type exactly so i will just tell u whats going on in my head. PLEASE if u are watching this comment your opinion down below. It will definitely help me. Its been 2 months since it all started. I was just chilling in my bed at night and boom I suddenly remembered what I did as a 7 years old child which was 10 years ago. Right now I am 17 year old boy. I was expose to porn at 7 years old by my older sibling. Something leades to another and I almost lose my virginity at that age but I still am a virgin and the event is not that of a big deal and suddenly I am having thoughts like what if u did lost your virginity if so then u are a bad person. My brain have been calling me bad things bad names just becuase of that. The thing is i am very certain that I still have my virginity but its been 10 years and I was a 7 years old child so I started to doubt my self even tho i am certain. Can anyone help me battle this. I just cant go on like this anymore. I have been having nightmares,sleepless nights and lost appetite. Please tell me is it OCD and what kind. Thank u!
Any tips to help with intrusive thoughts like “what if I’m better without my bf because these thoughts will do away “ “what if it’s not a right relationship “ But deep in my heart I cannot let him go I care and love him sm when I break down and have these spirals I’m able to know so fast this is what I want but when it’s a regular day I wake up and it’s starts all over he said “baby don’t put time into these thoughts “ but how am I supposed to not put time into them when they are circling my head then I had a stupid dream about an ex and I know u can’t control dreams so the dream doesn’t mean anything but it hurts and I feel so guilty and it makes me think does it mean I don’t love him or shouldn’t be with him . Just need tips to help me through this .
Why me 😔
Hi, is journaling good for OCD? I would love to journal but obviously don’t want to feed into my rumination. Any tips would be helpful, thanks.
I think I don’t understand SOOCD. Or maybe ROCD, or how the two of them work together? Speaking as a recently (past 3 years) out lesbian who is now engaged to a wonderful woman that I can’t wait to worship for the rest of my life lol… I read some of these posts and am like “I think maybe they’re just struggling with their sexuality” Like, what’s the difference? If you’re in a relationship with gender X but are experiencing feelings or thoughts about gender Y, then go for it right? Again, speaking from my experience and mindset (which is that everyone should live their authentic lives), I am not understanding the difference between repressing ACtual feelings about your sexuality and intrusive SO thoughts. Can someone help explain, I want to understand so I stop being a dick on everyone’s posts when I think I’m being helpful 😅🤷♀️😣
What's the difference between thoughts and desires?
Is it because of my severe Rocd that I feel always extremely tired?? I can't do simple things even if they seem so easy. I want to feel energetic and live my day fully but somehow I feel like I can't do anything and my body feels tired. Why is this happening even when I don't have intrusive thoughts or ruminations??
I’m so afraid to lose him over this I’m so afraid that these intrusive thoughts are true I’m starting to think do I need this relationship do we bring out the worst in each other I just want to be better for the both of us . So bad . I wanna get over this . I keep crying and crying overthinking in this loop . thinking what if this what if that what of all of this is true that we bring out the worst in each other that we won’t be better that we can’t work on this . I’m so draining and I’m an overload but he said don’t feels sorry he knows my thoughts aren’t true and he said we will be okay and work on things and get better he said it’s apart of a relationship. But all my brain can think is negative shit and I’m tired of it . I’m so scared to lose him over this . I’m losing myself .
I wanted to share something that’s been helping me with my SOOCD ruminations, but it may not be helpful for everyone. ~ this might be triggering so read on at your own risk ~ What if you didn’t use a label for your sexuality? Imagine just letting yourself love your current partner (or whatever partner you want) for who they are and not putting soooooo much weight on attraction. A feeling. One that ebbs and flows. I’m reminding myself that I get to choose to love my fiancé. That I know he’s an amazing human and a great partner. I know he’s the one I want to be with. When I remove the labels, it allows me to just be people with him. This has made it easier for me to not linger on what I am or am not. Labels were hurting me, but love wins.
Was feeling pretty good last night then the intrusive thoughts packed a big punch today 😭😭 cmon man, I was starting to feel better
My boyfriend told me he loved me and it really set off my relationship OCD, i constantly doubt wether i even like him like how do you know! he makes me happy but i feel like my emotions are blocked when i try and conjure up any nice feelings towards him? is this an ocd thing or do i just not like him anymore :(
HI EVERYONE MY NAME IS ROB AND I FEEL SO AFRAID ALL THE TIME OF LOSING CONTROL OF MY HORRIBLE THOUGHTS PURELY SEXUAL TOWARDS CHILDREN I NO I WOULD LET THAT HAPPEN BUT MY BODY IS SO FEARFUL OF THINKING THOSE THOUGHTS THAT I HIDE FROM THE WORLD IN FEAR OF BEING SEEN AS A SICK , HORRIBLE PERSON IT IS AND CAN BE A DEATH SENTENCE IN MY WORLD TO BE EXPOSED WITH THESE HORRIBLE THOUGHTS.
Just a reminder , you can always choose not to do a compulsion. The less compulsions you do , the more obsessions will stop and anxiety will drop down , try to do the less compulsions you can and it will get better with time. I would highly recommend Michael J Greenberg articles. He talks about how ERP should be more about learning than habituation and I think that is really interesting. I wish everyone from here has a good recovery
Anyone else triggered by almost everything? This makes it very difficult to get through the day and perform ERP as well.
Anyone ever get people obsessions ? I’ll get ignored by someone I texted or fear someone don’t like me and I get obsessed with that person . No I don’t stalk them or anything but i ruminate and hope that they start to like me . I’m a huge people pleaser and someone not liking me is awful for me .
“When anxiety was great within me, your consolation brought me joy.” 💛 Psalms 94:19 Consolation- comfort, compassion, support
Constant feelings of guilt. I think its annoying.
Because anger management and OCD have a common link, it might be best for those of us suffering with both to determine their most common anger triggers, especially anger triggers involving other people/animals. With 0 obligation to reply to this post, do you get angry more often when others are a) doing something you would like them to not be doing (i.e., "Can you stop eating dairy when you're lactose intolerant? You are ruining my toilet." b) not doing something you would like them to be doing (i.e. "Can you please wash the dishes? I have asked you like ten times." c) doing something they are doing elsewhere (i.e. "If you're going to eat peanuts, can you do it far away from me? I'm allergic") or d) doing something they are doing at a different time (i.e., "Sweetie, I'd love to talk to you about your doctor's appointment, but it has to wait, because I need to pee RIGHT NOW")
this isn’t technically ocd related but i need to vent. i’m so tired of seeking external validation. it’s where my social anxiety and ocd stem from, usually the fear of being neglected. i’m a perfectionist and an overachiever and i seek my parents validation specifically. as i’ve gotten older i’ve realized that feeding on that (getting perfect grades, doing everything to please them) has had a negative impact on me. i did the dishes for my mom, cleaned off the table, i just was outwardly nice tonight because she was angry. i was trying to lighten her mood and she didn’t even slightly acknowledge what i was doing. it seems stupid because i’ve been “feeding” on that validation and when i don’t get it i shut down. it’s a really shocking realization. i honestly don’t know who i am. i’ve lost all of my friends over the past year and i don’t have anyone to turn to besides a few acquaintances who don’t really understand me. i’m afraid to be vulnerable with them too. i feel stuck at home, not being able to build my own self esteem. it looks great from the outside, but my parents and siblings (and i, guilty of it until i realized how terrible it is) judge people constantly. we’ll have entire dinner conversations about other people and basically insulting them. this is kind of when i realized how if we are that critical of other people, how much of that same criticism have i ignored towards me? i’ve also noticed every time i get defensive they always say “i’m just teasing”, as if i just can’t take a joke when i’m being insulted? my parents give unconditional love but yet i still feel the need to be perfect. they let me make my own decisions. they’re outwardly loving and compassionate towards me. i know they love me. i don’t know why i’m fixated on controlling their moods when they get upset or angry. i also feel like i’m being unfair to them because they’ve provided so much for me and my few grievances with them don’t amount to what they’ve done for me. i can’t talk about this with anyone because my mom cancelled my next therapy session - with a therapist i’ve been seeing for a year who seems to not be equipped for ocd. i’ve mostly done talk therapy and i’m now aware that’s harmful, right? we’re trying to find a new one but i don’t know if i can make it much longer before i lose my mind. i don’t think it’s intentional but i can’t seem to connect the dots - how can i grow up with a solid home life and still have so many issues growing up? like am i just that unaware? when they ask me if i’m mad i feel like i can’t be honest. i don’t know why. i feel like they sometimes seem to downplay it or talk their way around it. they even apologize but i still feel stupid for taking up space, having needs, or not being the perfect child. it doesn’t make sense to me and i’m freaking out. has anyone else had an experience like this?
I’m so tired of being triggered by everything I just read something on here that made me nervous. Trying not to ruminate/compulse
Anyone have ideas for natural relief for ocd ? I’m trying a reiki master soon . Any other ideas ?
Loss of romantic/sexual attraction with POCD? I remember before this episode the only thing I wanted in the world was to have a romantic relationship with a girl my age and give her the world :( Now I feel intimacy repulsed and it's hard for me to get sexually aroused, and when I do it comes along with extreme anxiety and guilt afterwards, even though I'm not masturbating to anything bad?
Still dealing with the same thoughts about not doing a compulsion over a thought that I've engaged in.. I know that I don't have to do the compulsion it's a mental compulsion btw.. and I will not do the compulsion but still I feel like if I don't do the mental compulsion this thought will be with me the rest of my life.. which I know all of this my OCD. Has anyone ever dealt with this? If so...how did you get through it. Don't know if I should actually talk to a ocd therapist or not..
Does anyone know of any good OCD blogs?
Ocd constantly makes you feel a bad person because of all the thoughts. When you ignore them it feels like you agree with them and that you are a bad person.
Just venting: I was having a good day and my OCD makes me "feel" that I have been wanting to leave my gf for months. Telling me that I have felt this way for ages and that I AM going to do it. I then panic and think "oh no that's horrible I don't want to have these feelings. What if I break up with my girlfriend? I don't want to break her heart and it will break mine. I have a lot of issues due to all my OCD amongst other things but I love her and want to make things work" Then I realised... IT WAS OCD AS I HAD A "WHAT IF" It pisses me off that it can make you feel things you don't actually feel, just to start the cycle. It's like it sometimes partially or fully makes up a trigger and tells you it's real so it can give you "what ifs"
I’ve really been struggling tonight with some self harm ocd. The thought of doing things scares me but I can’t stop thinking about hurting myself.
I thought I would mention two sayings I like. “Thank you for your opinion OCD brain, but I’m not interested.” “OCD you are a mirage. You appear to be real or possible. But in fact you are an illusion.”
The last couple days have been difficult. I’ve had a lot of intrusive thoughts about death and dying, I’ve been doing a lot of checking compulsions to “see if” I agree with the thoughts or not. It’s been hard to sit with uncertainty when I’m feeling kind of down about other things already. I’ve just started erp, any advice or insight?
TW - Psychosis & SZ Hello, I have the fear of developing Psychosis… and I was doing a lot of research at one point (not anymore) and one of the symptoms latched onto me… I watched a video of a woman who has SZ and she said one of the first symptoms she got was hearing her name being called.. I started having an intrusive thought of my name and it was so intrusive and persistent that I started questioning whether or not I was actually hearing it… and now I feel like when I hear someone yell or a weird noise it merges with the though and it somehow sounds like it’s saying my name. Even thought I know I’m not hearing it but now I’m just really anxious… and don’t know how to deal with this and not sure if anyone’s ever experienced something similar?
My Ocd keeps telling me that I’m schizophrenic and I’m starting to believe that. I also have fear of death and fear of losing loved. I don’t know what to do I’m so tired and sad.
I was talking to my boyfriend about my ocd fear of having a personality disorder. He was like “hannah I’ve always known you had that” and told me all the reasons why. I was so anxious but it turns out he was just convincing me as a form of exposure. It actually helped a lot to face it and that boy is an erp master apparently 😅 and also a great actor
I’m just so scared I’m in denial. And it’s affecting how I dress. I want to wear sweatpants and baggy clothes but then I feel like I look like a lesbian. I just feel like the way I wear clothes and jewelry makes me seem like a lesbian because I’m not naturally like super feminine. I know it’s bs but it just sucks how this is getting into my head about every single aspect of my identity. I guess I just don’t have a secure sense of who I am and that’s what brings this on?